43S News

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
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Over_score
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Re: 43S News

Post by Over_score »

I've been a supporter of right-sided operators like the 42S from the beginning.
If they have to be on the left, the order doesn't matter to me.
Martin
DM42 (SN 00284 & 03835), DM15L, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime
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Over_score
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Re: 43S News

Post by Over_score »

The last poll on this subject being in 2012, I would tend to propose a new poll to the roughly 80 members of the forum having "pre-ordered" a 43S in this thread.
4 choices:
left or right and bottom up + - × / or / × + -
What do you think Walter?
DM42 (SN 00284 & 03835), DM15L, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime
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akaTB
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Re: 43S News

Post by akaTB »

Over_score wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:30 am
The last poll on this subject being in 2012, I would tend to propose a new poll to the roughly 80 members of the forum having "pre-ordered" a 43S in this thread.
4 choices:
left or right and bottom up + - × / or / × + -
What do you think Walter?
Not again, please!
The initial poll was already reissued since not everybody was pleased with the result.
Instead of polls could you please just release this calc? Or it is doomed to follow the fate of THE BOOK?
:lol:
Greetings,
    Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong :twisted: Casted in gold
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos »

Poll is a good suggestion. Maybe the three options, scored or ranked.

I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.

Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.

So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
C43 (WP34C) on DM42 sn. 03818 & 06199 for complex math, HP42S; HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
toml_12953
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Re: 43S News

Post by toml_12953 »

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:02 pm
Poll is a good suggestion. Maybe the three options, scored or ranked.

I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.

Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.

So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
I think the votes of the people who got in on the now-closed beta run (disclaimer: I'm one of those) should be weighted more than the people who either weren't interested before or couldn't decide whether or not to order one. We have actually committed to putting our money where our mouth is. Unless the Creator is going to design by fiat, he should listen to the people who will certainly buy one. If he's the lone decider, then what's with all the polls and suggestions allowed? Just tell us, "It's going to be this way. Buy it or don't." HP didn't formally ask customers what they wanted before they introduced calculators and they were very successful.
Tom L

If I buy someone a drink to congratulate them, is it a Mazel Tov cocktail?

DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM41X SN: 00506 (Shipping)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)
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akaTB
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Re: 43S News

Post by akaTB »

toml_12953 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:37 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:02 pm
Poll is a good suggestion. Maybe the three options, scored or ranked.

I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.

Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.

So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
I think the votes of the people who got in on the now-closed beta run (disclaimer: I'm one of those) should be weighted more than the people who either weren't interested before or couldn't decide whether or not to order one. We have actually committed to putting our money where our mouth is. Unless the Creator is going to design by fiat, he should listen to the people who will certainly buy one. If he's the lone decider, then what's with all the polls and suggestions allowed? Just tell us, "It's going to be this way. Buy it or don't." HP didn't formally ask customers what they wanted before they introduced calculators and they were very successful.
Ditto!
And people who expressed interest several years ago on the former polls, should be weighted even more.
Why should we start another war right now?

Just do it, for heaven's sake!
Greetings,
    Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong :twisted: Casted in gold
Peet
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Re: 43S News

Post by Peet »

I don't think a vote is a good idea. It is like the two wolves and a sheep deciding on lunch.
When it comes to product design, I prefer responsibility of the maker (if he is capable).

What I like are reasoned procedures, what I don't like is the clapping together components (as some cheap Chinese manufacturers do).

Three "designs" are currently being discussed.
1. Classic design (HP35, HP41C style)
2. "Later" design (HP35S, HP42S style)
3. Mixed design (41 layout, 42 order)

If you choose 1st or 2nd, each other's users will be a little annoyed, but they get used to it.
If you use all three computers, everyone only has to get used to 2 layouts.

With the 3rd layout, for the users of the 2nd this is not much different from switching to the 1st, but for users of the classic design this may be much more annoying. If you use all three computers, you now have to use three layouts.

The question that arises: layout 3 has disadvantages for users of layout 1 and 2 but what advantages and for whom?
My programmable calculators - former: CBM PR100, HP41CV, HP28S, HP11C - current: HP48G, HP35S, DM41X
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Whenever a poll is closed and counted, people will wake up who
  • forgot to vote,
  • didn't read carefully,
  • aren't content with the outcome.
This holds even for simple votes without voting machines and narcistic kindergartners involved.

What did we learn from the poll of 2012 which was presented to a slightly more numerous crowd of HP calculator aficionados than visiting this forum here?
  1. Voters wanted ENTER and the four arithmetic operators in one column, for ergonomic reasons (compare also the Prime). I can comprehend this argument.
  2. Voters were discussing vividly the order of said operators but no one could give a reason for the old sequence / × + − (bottom up). As mentioned, tradition is no reason. This reason is missing until today, although I asked more than once. As long as this holds, I prefer a sequence which is accepted worldwide and can be explained. And I'm confident even our seniors will love their 43S so that their 'muscle memory' will soon adapt to the 'new' sequence. By the way, doesn't said 'muscle memory' sit in the cerebellum while calculating is done in the cerebrum?
As also mentioned more than once, whoever wants another layout for the 43S can
  • use ASSIGN (printed ASN on the keyboard) to customize his 43S (see Section 6 of the Owner's Manual),
  • design his own layout based on our work (like Jaco did and does),
  • design his own calculator from scratch (which is fun but also some work - promised).
CETERVM CENSEO: We should focus on getting the 43S ready. Who wants to support us is invited to apply. So far, the odds are still good we'll finish before THE BOOK will be published (which was even begun some years before the 43S, IIRC).

EDIT: To be safer, I should say "before THE BOOK materializes" instead. ;)
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

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rprosperi
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Re: 43S News

Post by rprosperi »

Walter wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:26 pm
Voters were discussing vividly the order of said operators but no one could give a reason for the old sequence / × + − (bottom up). As mentioned, tradition is no reason. This reason is missing until today, although I asked more than once. As long as this holds, I prefer a sequence which is accepted worldwide and can be explained.
A good reason for retaining a long-used standard is exactly because of its familiarity, comfort and reliable operation from long years of use.

In the oft-used example of people being comfortable with the seemingly bizarre layout of a Qwerty keyboard, it is exactly because they've used it for a long time that they accept and like it, and not because of why it came to be this way (which we happen to know is this layout minimized mechanism conflicts/jamming). Users like Qwerty simply because it's familiar and predictable; most don't know and none care how that layout came to be as that no longer matters.

You could explain that a keyboard laid out in alphabetical order makes good sense, because after all, this is how they were taught letters in the A, B, C, D, etc. sequence, but no one would try to justify that simply because we all share knowing that order. The order we learned letters has nothing to do with how we type them on our keyboards while typing words. And to be sure, as you will no doubt point out. some people today use different letters, but let's limit to the discussion to the Roman alphabet.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Please consider that the last calculator featuring the old (inexplicable) sequence of operators was launched 37 years ago, IIRC. QWERTZ and QWERTY keyboards, however, are produced until today. (Bad luck - please return with a better offer. :P )
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L
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