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Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:11 pm
by akaTB
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:05 pm


Correct in principle, but the Voyagers cloned the layout of the HP-71 which was launched in 1979.
Correct in principle, but the HP-71B was launched in 1984.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:27 pm
by Peet
akaTB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:11 pm
Correct in principle, but the HP-71B was launched in 1984.
My mistake - it's a shame, you can't rely on https://www.hpmuseum.org

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:33 pm
by Walter
akaTB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:11 pm
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:05 pm
Correct in principle, but the Voyagers cloned the layout of the HP-71 which was launched in 1979.
Correct in principle, but the HP-71B was launched in 1984.
... and the HP-71 doesn't really qualify as a pocket calculator (but belongs to the aircraft carrier class).

Grazie, Massimo, per la sua reactione svelta!

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:40 pm
by akaTB
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:27 pm
akaTB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:11 pm
Correct in principle, but the HP-71B was launched in 1984.
My mistake - it's a shame, you can't rely on https://www.hpmuseum.org
Why?

On page https://www.hpmuseum.org/hp71.htm it is correctly stated:
Introduction-Discontinuation: 1984-1989

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:45 pm
by Peet
akaTB wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:40 pm
Why?
On page https://www.hpmuseum.org/hp71.htm it is correctly stated:
Introduction-Discontinuation: 1984-1989
Yes, but I only looked on the timeline on the start-page and fount it in 1979 and I also confused the HP71 with the HP75 who allready existed at my favorit HP Store when I bought the Printer for the 41CV in 1982 - my mistake!

Re: 43S News

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:29 am
by STS-741
H2X wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:38 pm
The QWERTY arrangement? Well, I guess typewriters which didn't jam were easier to sell than those that did.
Man, what are you talking about?! This has nothing to do with the QWERTY keypad but exclusively with the numeric one to the right of it. Remember, computer keyboards have always been business-oriented from the very beginning and therefore nothing unusual. 8-)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:57 am
by H2X
STS-741 wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:29 am
H2X wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:38 pm
The QWERTY arrangement? Well, I guess typewriters which didn't jam were easier to sell than those that did.
Man, what are you talking about?! This has nothing to do with the QWERTY keypad but exclusively with the numeric one to the right of it. Remember, computer keyboards have always been business-oriented from the very beginning and therefore nothing unusual. 8-)
I am trying to draw attention to the fact that people seem to be just fine with computer keyboards which have no logic or rationale behind the arrangement of keys apart from a practical one taken ages ago that has stuck with us since. People get by surprisingly well using these keyboards (even if some replace the Y with a Z, etc.)

Non-character keys on various computers are placed inconsistently on different brands and types of keyboards (laptops, stationary computers, etc.) People get by with this too.

What I am suggesting is this: Have some pudding, and see what happens. See if it grows on you with time.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:59 am
by STS-741
Walter wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
Ummh, what? To which 'usual order' did HP return? FYI: All HP pocket calculators from the HP-35 to the HP-41CX featured / × + − bottom up on their left, all later models from the HP-12C on had + − × / on their right. And whoever copies calculator layouts ...
Well, that should support my arguments, HP has finally returned to normality, operators remain on the right! And no, that's not a joke, it's the reality, but there should be people who don't want that to be true.
Walter wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
Seriously, one can (and should) combine advantages as well.
What advantages? For example, that a pocket calculator is awkward to use for the majority just because a few lateral thinkers among the developers wanted to see their absurd ideas realized? It would take a lot of imagination to interpret that as progress! :roll:
Walter wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
And also in the IEEE links I didn't find anything about the chosen order of operations. Seems the statement still holds that HP chose / × + − (bottom up) for reasons no one knows anymore.
And that proves us now what? Is it that scientists and technicians basically need something different from the majority of users? Certainly not, since the requirements have not changed since then and now almost all pocket calculators have the operators on the right and they should stay there forever. 8-)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:26 am
by STS-741
H2X wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:57 am
I am trying to draw attention to the fact that people seem to be just fine with computer keyboards which have no logic or rationale behind the arrangement of keys apart from a practical one taken ages ago that has stuck with us since. People get by surprisingly well using these keyboards (even if some replace the Y with a Z, etc.).
Unfortunately, that's not true either. There are a lot of users who still can't cope with a universal key arrangement, like US-International, and are obviously too stupid to install it.
H2X wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:57 am
Non-character keys on various computers are placed inconsistently on different brands and types of keyboards (laptops, stationary computers, etc.) People get by with this too.
There are functions that allow a free arrangement, but this is far from being the case for all of them, as the arrangement in logical groups remains decisive for the usability of the device. Companies that don't want to understand this, or don't take this into account, will sooner or later fail with their products.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:21 am
by H2X
STS-741 wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:26 am
H2X wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:57 am
I am trying to draw attention to the fact that people seem to be just fine with computer keyboards which have no logic or rationale behind the arrangement of keys apart from a practical one taken ages ago that has stuck with us since. People get by surprisingly well using these keyboards (even if some replace the Y with a Z, etc.).
Unfortunately, that's not true either. There are a lot of users who still can't cope with a universal key arrangement, like US-International, and are obviously too stupid to install it.
H2X wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:57 am
Non-character keys on various computers are placed inconsistently on different brands and types of keyboards (laptops, stationary computers, etc.) People get by with this too.
There are functions that allow a free arrangement, but this is far from being the case for all of them, as the arrangement in logical groups remains decisive for the usability of the device. Companies that don't want to understand this, or don't take this into account, will sooner or later fail with their products.
You simply won't give us your experience-based evaluation of the WP43S key arrangement, will you? 8-)