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Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:41 pm
by STS-741
Jaymos wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:03 pm
I don’t think handedness plays a role. Not for me anyway. I am left handed and prefer the operators on the right.
Handedness played an important role right from the start, it was and is decisive for the whole economy. As a left-hander, you are part of a minority and therefore hardly authoritative as such. I respect your point of view, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong as it's completely irrelevant to the industry.
Jaymos wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:03 pm
But muscle memory plays a large role and for that I will not own a 41 or earlier unit. For the same reason you have to respect those who can operate a 41 or 25 blindfolded. SM seems to understand that.
If you have no problems with the standard arrangement, then this is a clear advantage for you, while others will have to get used to it. ;)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:44 pm
by H2X
Gentlemen, what type of computer keyboards are you typing on? Surely you can get used to the weirdest things...

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:48 pm
by Walter
H2X wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:40 pm
I suggest the pudding proof.

If the pudding is good, it will be evident when eating it. Grab a simulator (or flash a DM42), and see what happens.

Then do report back! :D
10 + 8-)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:53 pm
by Walter
Jaymos wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:03 pm
I don’t think handedness plays a role. Not for me anyway. I am left handed and prefer the operators on the right.
:lol: That's actually a reason for operators on the left for 85% of mankind, isn't it?

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:00 pm
by STS-741
H2X wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:44 pm
Gentlemen, what type of computer keyboards are you typing on? Surely you can get used to the weirdest things.
Please don't confuse watermelons with apricots, computer keyboards have always been business-oriented, similar to desktop calculators. And no, I don't find that unusual or weird! Every consumer today has the option of switching to a different product if he or she cannot cope with it. 8-)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
by Walter
STS-741 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:54 pm
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:16 pm
This design was typical for HP-Calculators for many years (the last calculator with this layout was the HP-41CX introduced in 1983 and discontinued in 1990). The keyboard-layout of the DM41X was designed like this calculators. Later HP changed the design and oriented themselves towards the competition. After this they brought an RPN-Calculator with a design, which more looks like a "normal" AOS calculator (i.a. the HP-42s). The DM42 got his layout from this calculator.
I was already familiar with all of this, apart from the reasons that led to the sudden change in the layout of the HP-41CX. ... Today we know what a fatal error this decision by HP was, so the return to the usual order was a logical consequence.
Ummh, what? To which 'usual order' did HP return? FYI: All HP pocket calculators from the HP-35 to the HP-41CX featured / × + − bottom up on their left, all later models from the HP-12C on had + − × / on their right. And whoever copies calculator layouts ...
STS-741 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:54 pm
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:16 pm
All this layouts have people who like them, people who hate them and users who tolerate them because they want the functionality.
Intelligent design should not have anything to do with what people like or hate, but rather what is necessary for the most efficient operation possible. What people hate most are inexplicable changes that no one can understand. Personally, however, I could understand that the order of the individual functions is taken into account in various arithmetic operations and that the keys are therefore arranged according to obviously strategic aspects, among other things.
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:16 pm
I was afraid that the DM43 came with an other different design which was a new design that mixes the scientific-calculator key-position with the business calculation key-order and combines their disadvantages and can so be hated by fans of the old and the new design. Some cheap Chinese calculators are designed that way - loveless, the main thing is that it works somehow.
I would have found that strange too, it's lucky for everyone here that no Chinese work at SwissMicros. :lol:
That's a really good joke. :lol: :lol:

Seriously, one can (and should) combine advantages as well. 8-)

And also in the IEEE links I didn't find anything about the chosen order of operations. Seems the statement still holds that HP chose / × + − (bottom up) for reasons noone knows anymore.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:30 pm
by Peet
Walter wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
FYI: All HP pocket calculators from the HP-35 to the HP-41CX featured / × + − bottom up on their left, all later models from the HP-12C on had + − × / on their right.
The HP12C came 1981, the HP-41CX 1983.
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:45 pm
No they don't. HPs landscape calculators allways had them on the right side in /*-+ order and portrait on the left with -+*/ (compare HP67 vs 97 or take a look on the 71b). So the Voyagers had a "classic" Layout.

They switch on Portrait from "RPN-Style" to (TI-)AOS-Style after gave up RPN as their core competency and made Algebraic or hybrid calculators (like HP48) or uses same housings/key-layouts for AOS & RPN-Calc (e.g. 22S and 32S).

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:38 pm
by H2X
STS-741 wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:00 pm
computer keyboards have always been business-oriented...
The QWERTY arrangement? Well, I guess typewriters which didn't jam were easier to sell than those that did... ;)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:55 pm
by Walter
Peet wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:30 pm
Walter wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
FYI: All HP pocket calculators from the HP-35 to the HP-41CX featured / × + − bottom up on their left, all later models from the HP-12C on had + − × / on their right.
The HP12C came 1981, the HP-41CX 1983.
Correct in principle, but the HP-41CX cloned the layout of the HP-41C which was launched in 1979.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:05 pm
by Peet
Walter wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:14 pm
Seriously, one can (and should) combine advantages as well. 8-)
I think the most common advantages are:

-+*/ left: Users and friends of the classic HP Calculator (Portrait-Style from HP-35 till HP-41CX) can find their way around it better.

+ bottom right ("Kaufleute" Design): Merchants who have had to add up their daily sales like this. Users and friends of the later HP Calculator (Portrait-Style from HP-48S and the algebraic models) can find their way around it better.

These are Lost in the crossed Design. Which advantages are combined?

Edit: removed wrong chapter