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Re: 43S News

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:34 pm
by rprosperi
Walter wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:12 am
We can discuss almost anything here but please do it comprehensively. E.g. FLAGS is inevitable in any mode since system flags were introduced. It must not go to g+9 since this location is taken by a Greek letter. (You can't know this unless you've read the manuals and understood their modifications - no offense intended, but that's basic.)

As mentioned, this thread is full of good proposals accepted. OTOH, quick and easy suggestions without thinking to the end may insult the other side. Repeating them doesn't make it better. So, please...
This surely is not a 'quick and easy suggestion...' but I will include here a more complete version of my suggestion:

Proposed changes to 5th row of Alpha mode assignments:

a) "N" and the 2 glyphs in blue above the N all move to the "/" primary key
b) "O" and the 2 glyphs in blue above the O all move to the "7" primary key
c) "P" and the 2 glyphs in blue above the P all move to the ""8" primary key
d) "Q" moves to the "9" primary key
e) [g]-FLAGS, initially assigned to [g]-[/], moves to [g]-[9], which is now available as a result of step c. above
f) ":" moves to the "XEQ" primary key

I can find no other reference to a conflict with the proposed item e) above in the recent baseline Alpha screen shot, nor in the current manuals, but admit to not having deep familiarity with their encyclopedic contents. If there is a conflict that I've missed, please point out a reference or page number, etc.; I've searched both manuals for 10 minutes and don't find it in the expected areas.

I also concur with Mark's suggestion "I would like to go one step further and ask that the 8th line be changed to Z, ?, comma, space." It makes sense for the same core reasons discussed above about grouping the characters in left-edge-to-right sequences favored over (IMHO) unnecessary phonetic reminder assignments; and in this case I do not see why "?" should take a 'special' position.

2 additional readers have added their support for this suggestion, and there are still no supporters for the baseline. While I'm not at all suggesting that this is simply a popularity decision, surely you recognize the knowledge and experience of the folks that have supported this to date.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:52 am
by Netmage
I (greatly) prefer the new suggested order rationalizing the alphabetic letter grid in the lower portion with NOPQ and Z being moved.

Also, why is the [f] I the up arrow and [f] M the down arrow (and not [f] K? And given those special characters are [f] shifted, why are the less than equal and printer character [g] shifted and not also an [f] shift?

And since the A (international?) menu is [f] shift, shouldn't the [g]. menu be [f] shift ad well? Then all special characters and menus are [f] shifted and all Greek are [g] shifted.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:55 am
by akaTB
I bet this will not pass, either.

[EDIT] should have waited 4 minutes more... Ok, this round is on me.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:59 am
by Walter
Can you concur with this?
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Remarks: In alpha input mode, ny goes to [/], omega to [7], pi to [8], and ':' into alpha punctuation menu since it has no connection to XEQ. FLAGS went to [^] directly above MODE after RCL became g-shifted [9]. Both FLAGS and MODE are accessible in any mode. MOD went to g-shifted [/] next to RMD. - I can live with either layout.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:08 am
by Netmage
I like that much better, and think MOD on / with RMD makes good sense.

PS I also think the 2 on x^2 is too large compared to the x of y^x, though the improved JM version didn't convince me either as optically the 2 still seems off. Perhaps between the two?

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:14 am
by Walter
Netmage wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:52 am
... why is the [f] I the up arrow and [f] M the down arrow (and not [f] K? And given those special characters are [f] shifted, why are the less than equal and printer character [g] shifted and not also an [f] shift?

And since the A (international?) menu is [f] shift, shouldn't the [g]. menu be [f] shift ad well? Then all special characters and menus are [f] shifted and all Greek are [g] shifted.
Please look here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816&start=660#p14160. All Greek are g-shifted anyway. The hollow arrows up and down are no characters but prefixes for super- and subscripts. Reasons for A (all Latin letters menu), < (alpha math menu), and showing the colours they show should be self-explanatory looking at this virtual keyboard.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:42 pm
by rprosperi
Walter wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:59 am
Can you concur with this?
[snip]

Remarks: In alpha input mode, ny goes to [/], omega to [7], pi to [8], and ':' into alpha punctuation menu since it has no connection to XEQ. FLAGS went to [^] directly above MODE after RCL became g-shifted [9]. Both FLAGS and MODE are accessible in any mode. MOD went to g-shifted [/] next to RMD. - I can live with either layout.
I do concur and I thank you and others that contributed to this improvement. As usual, the additional tweaks are further refinements as well, IMHO. Your note says "RCL" but I'm sure this is a typo as the image shows "RTN" which I like better adjacent to GTO and LBL. FLAGS close to MODE is sensible too.

How about the Z in the bottom row, your image and notes don't address this?

Thanks Walter!

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:37 pm
by Walter
rprosperi wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:42 pm
Your note says "RCL" but I'm sure this is a typo as the image shows "RTN" which I like better adjacent to GTO and LBL. FLAGS close to MODE is sensible too.
You can continue being sure ;)
rprosperi wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:42 pm
How about the Z in the bottom row, your image and notes don't address this?
Consider Z and ? being swapped.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:47 pm
by Jaymos
The last changes, i.e //RMD/MOD, RTN/GTO/LBL, FLAGS/MODE and N, O, P & Q, are superb.

A real jump ahead.

Compliments.

I have half a millimeter of comment: I had a look on your last image here and also checked on Gitlab the new one, and even though the "," and space seem correctly placed as you would normally write, for the balance on the template I think the comma protrudes a bit too much down and the space is aligned too low, aligned with the bottom of the button. Both seem too be placed too low compared with the ? and Z (which I know will swap). Maybe you want to consider moving up the half a mm. If not, well, I tried ...

On the mockup below I moved , and space half a mm up and the eye does see the two anomalies in relation to the other grey font letters disappear when moved up.
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Re: 43S News

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:19 am
by toml_12953
Jaymos wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:47 pm
On the mockup below I moved , and space half a mm up and the eye does see the two anomalies in relation to the other grey font letters disappear when moved up.
I guess my eyes are too old. I don't see the difference! :shock: