43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
dlachieze
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 10:20 am
Location: France

Re: 43S News

Post by dlachieze » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:00 am

Dani R. wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:22 am
[I suppose, and here I can only write about my impressions, that there are some people here who have fallen silent because they don't feel able to convince the PR.
Been there, done that and failed to convince the PR. So I will take whatever goes into production as with any HP calculator.
The 34S is a great calculator and the 43S should be one also even if I don't like the keyboard layout. Maybe the 43C...
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:42 am

H2X wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:49 pm
But are there no plans for the space above 7, 8, and 9?
I'm assuming there is?

I stand by my statement that the f[g] and g[f] arrangement is clever, creative, and overt, but I did assume that it was also needed.

NB: I don't care if it changes or not, I'm just curious why such an unusual design choice was made for the 43S. I thought unusual was the 43C's domain...
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:43 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:36 am
I think the very benefit of two shift keys lies in the simplicity of two separate shift keys, which is something the 43C does not have. HP and WP34S even went to 3 clean shift keys to increase real estate. With that method there are no forced complications such as double presses and what not.

I FULLY agree with Dani that UNTIL you would be forced by a lack of space on the keyboard for new functions, the additional complication such as f[g] may be clever and creative, but is simply not yet necessary and brings with it unintended fuzziness in an otherwise clean UI.

I saw the shift-shifts on the day that it arrived in the code as I also compile the new emulators and DM42 images on a daily basis. I left the shift-shifts as is, as it is neither relevant in 43C with one shift key only, nor worth an argument with PR as those end the same way. As Dani implied earlier, despite invites many things have for long time been not open for change and I would rather spend my time on my own code than have an argument with a known outcome.
The challenge was locating CPX near CC although |x| and ∡ took its shifted locations already. You find our solution in the present layout.

General remark (again): This thread is full of examples for suggestions from the community accepted by the developers. Though not everything was accepted, and this will continue (after all, it's our project we launched in 2012, nursed for many years, and now bring in to become real - and we have our preferences and red lines as well). I think you can understand our thoughts although you may feel frustrated. Medicine: a) The 43S keyboard can be customized, and b) if you're very convinced of your own design then push your own project. HTH but I'm afraid we can't offer more.
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
akaTB
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 11:56 am
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: 43S News

Post by akaTB » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:03 pm

Walter wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:43 am

General remark (again): This thread is full of examples for suggestions from the community accepted by the developers. Though not everything was accepted, and this will continue (after all, it's our project we launched in 2012, nursed for many years, and now bring in to become real - and we have our preferences and red lines as well). I think you can understand our thoughts although you may feel frustrated. Medicine: a) The 43S keyboard can be customized, and b) if you're very convinced of your own design then push your own project. HTH but I'm afraid we can't offer more.
This is perfectly clear since a long time, so I never said a word. After all I already had operators on the right side... and wrong order. ;)
I will take whatever comes out of your nursery, and already committed to buy at least one.
What I don't understand is your fishing for suggestions, when it is clear that you already have strong beliefs and it would be really hard to convince you to change them.

Well done, it will be a really interesting calculator.
Greetings,
    Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong :twisted: Casted in gold

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:48 pm

Grazie, Massimo, per le sue parole amicabile. :D
akaTB wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:03 pm
What I don't understand is your fishing for suggestions, when it is clear that you already have strong beliefs and it would be really hard to convince you to change them.
Never give up hope for seeing a new idea. OTOH, some topics were covered ad nauseam... ;)
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:19 pm

Walter wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:43 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:36 am
I FULLY agree with Dani that UNTIL you would be forced by a lack of space on the keyboard for new functions, the additional complication such as f[g] may be clever and creative, but is simply not yet necessary and brings with it unintended fuzziness in an otherwise clean UI.
The challenge was locating CPX near CC although |x| and ∡ took its shifted locations already. You find our solution in the present layout.
Almost forgot: The second part of the challenge was locating USER at a position where it works in alpha input mode as well. 8-)
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:47 am

Walter wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:19 pm
Walter wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:43 am
The challenge was locating CPX near CC although |x| and ∡ took its shifted locations already. You find our solution in the present layout.
Almost forgot: The second part of the challenge was locating USER at a position where it works in alpha input mode as well. 8-)
There's the explanation! Thanks!

Also, the print on the faceplate can obviously be updated easier than the ditto on the keys, should the need arise.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:42 am

H2X wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:47 am
... the print on the faceplate can obviously be updated easier than the ditto on the keys, should the need arise.
Applying an overlay is always possible - it would be a pity though.
DM42 SN: 00041 Beta
WP 43S running on this device

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:13 am

Walter wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:42 am
H2X wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:47 am
... the print on the faceplate can obviously be updated easier than the ditto on the keys, should the need arise.
Applying an overlay is always possible - it would be a pity though.
I agree, I meant that the faceplate can be replaced with an updated one. I have replaced the one on my DM42 already (albeit with an identical one, because the original one kept falling off).
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 585
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:30 pm

I have some more positive criticism. I haven't given up. If you don't like it, discard.
I made it easy for you to look - maybe a picture is worth the 10^3 words...
Sonst wegschmeißen.
Walter wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:36 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:07 pm
Square root x: In the font tool that I think you use to maintain the calculator fonts (Fontcreator), there is a way to import a scanned or otherwise created bitmap and convert that to a vector font. You could try make a sqrtx glyph and edit it in Fontcreator to have a vector glyph, then you won’t have to manually insert a line.
There is no manually inserted line.
Sounds like Bill Clinton ;-).
I beg to differ. The line is there next to the root sign, well done and placed, but a manually inserted vector nevertheless; and it is quite fine like that.
.
wp43S-sqr.png
wp43S-sqr.png (6.29 KiB) Viewed 1380 times
.
Walter wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:36 pm
BTW, Michael continues claiming they do series production without tolerances (I learn something new here sometimes). I'm most willing to audit that revolutionary breakthrough method (Am.: technology)
In order to properly illustrate to you what I meant with the letter sizes, stroke widths, etc, here, I fiddled your vector file and show those in the green areas. Very slight changes, but noticeable to me at least:

1. Top row: I thought the yellow lower case font needed a bit of an upsize, as well as the sqrt's x.
2. I changed the "2" in x^2. It is not a new font, I edited the vectors, changed the size and bulked up the body of the 2.
3. I thinckened the |x| lines and shifted it tighter.
4. The stroke size of the arrow down on [Rv] and arrow up on [E] would be at risk of the paint not properly showing, and the brightness that could be lower due to lack of ink. I bulked up the down arrow, the diagonal of the percentage sign and the lines of |x| to have the same line thickness as the capital letter strokes. This just to make sure it prints properly. I did not increase the underlines, as those do not really matter if it would come out slightly dull.
5. I bulked up the f and g.
6. I also increased the width of the coloured boxing around f and g. I think it could be thinner, but I want to illustrate the concept that by printing to over the edge, causes the black void in between the bezel and the button to be the only black line.

The box line is illustrative of the concept of not having irregular black lines on the inside border due to the cumulative inaccuracies between printing and the void cut for the button. The line currently is starting from the same point in the surrounding space as it did before, extending across the template cut line, thereby creating the effect that there is no additional black border around the button. Because of this, I think the line can start closer to the button.
.
Clipboard04.png
Clipboard04.png (65.03 KiB) Viewed 1380 times
My fiddling.
.
Clipboard05.png
Clipboard05.png (50.01 KiB) Viewed 1380 times
The last layout found on Gitlab.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
WP43C running on DM42 sn. 03818 .

Post Reply