43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:16 am

H2X wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:53 am
Walter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:03 pm
No secret - you find it in About the Author in each WP34S manual - experimental nuclear physics. 8-)
Cool! Fusion?
Nah - nuclear spectroscopy (but mainly real-time data acquisition and analysis).

Fusion was 40 years away when I studied and is now still (the so-called fusion constant).
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DA74254
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Re: 43S News

Post by DA74254 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:51 am

Walter wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:16 am
H2X wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:53 am
Walter wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:03 pm
No secret - you find it in About the Author in each WP34S manual - experimental nuclear physics. 8-)
Cool! Fusion?
Nah - nuclear spectroscopy (but mainly real-time data acquisition and analysis).

Fusion was 40 years away when I studied and is now still (the so-called fusion constant).
Nice :)
You wouldn't happend to have any influence in your industry, such as to promote and speed up Thorium research and technology? I'm still looking forward to obtain a thorium-propelled car (wich needs 8 grammes of thorium fuel to last a 100 years). Thus, if said car contained 16 grammes of fuel, one coul'd have a car charging the house instead of the really low-efficient opposite. The energy crisis (and probably, as everybody screams about, the environment) woul'd have been solved for all future. Or, at least the next few billion years until the sun inevitably engulfs our planet in it's last state of existence before being a brown dwarf..
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:39 am

DA74254 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:51 am
You wouldn't happend to have any influence in your industry, ...
Which industry? If you know of any "physical" industry, please tell me. Personally, I've worked in various industries, from needles to pipelines, just to name both product size limits. BTW, most physicists moving to "industry" here went anywhere but to power plants - nowadays even less than back then.
DA74254 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:51 am
... such as to promote and speed up Thorium research and technology? I'm still looking forward to obtain a thorium-propelled car (wich needs 8 grammes of thorium fuel to last a 100 years). Thus, if said car contained 16 grammes of fuel, one coul'd have a car charging the house instead of the really low-efficient opposite. The energy crisis (and probably, as everybody screams about, the environment) woul'd have been solved for all future.
Which Thorium isotope are you talking about? Please specify. Your scenario sounds a bit like Sixties to me when environment wasn't any issue at all yet and "atomic" cars and planes were found in each and every popular tech magazine employing more or less gifted artists.
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Re: 43S News

Post by DA74254 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:19 pm

Walter wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:39 am
DA74254 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:51 am
You wouldn't happend to have any influence in your industry, ...
Which industry? If you know of any "physical" industry, please tell me. Personally, I've worked in various industries, from needles to pipelines, just to name both product size limits. BTW, most physicists moving to "industry" here went anywhere but to power plants - nowadays even less than back then.
DA74254 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:51 am
... such as to promote and speed up Thorium research and technology? I'm still looking forward to obtain a thorium-propelled car (wich needs 8 grammes of thorium fuel to last a 100 years). Thus, if said car contained 16 grammes of fuel, one coul'd have a car charging the house instead of the really low-efficient opposite. The energy crisis (and probably, as everybody screams about, the environment) woul'd have been solved for all future.
Which Thorium isotope are you talking about? Please specify. Your scenario sounds a bit like Sixties to me when environment wasn't any issue at all yet and "atomic" cars and planes were found in each and every popular tech magazine employing more or less gifted artists.
Since I'm but a humble ships engineer, I do not really have all the isotopes off of top of my head, but the one with around 1000 years halving time. And for the technology, I'm thinking about the molten salt reactor.

Edit:
Thorium-228, and it is about 2 years half-time..
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:21 pm

DA74254 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:19 pm
And for the technology, I'm thinking about the molten salt reactor.

Edit:
Thorium-228, and it is about 2 years half-time..
For a start, I found three articles about molten salt reactors: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%BCssigsalzreaktor and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fl ... um_reactor. None of these articles mentions 228Th. Looking at the technology, it's a fission reactor basically - producing persistent radioactive waste for which mankind hasn't found a reasonable way to get rid of in 70 years of nuclear (fission) power so far. As long as this waste problem remains unsolved, I vote against such a technology leaving our kids, grandkids, etc. tons of radioactive stuff they shall take care of for many generations. YMMV
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Re: 43S News

Post by DA74254 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:50 am

Walter wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:21 pm
DA74254 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:19 pm
And for the technology, I'm thinking about the molten salt reactor.

Edit:
Thorium-228, and it is about 2 years half-time..
For a start, I found three articles about molten salt reactors: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%BCssigsalzreaktor and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fl ... um_reactor. None of these articles mentions 228Th. Looking at the technology, it's a fission reactor basically - producing persistent radioactive waste for which mankind hasn't found a reasonable way to get rid of in 70 years of nuclear (fission) power so far. As long as this waste problem remains unsolved, I vote against such a technology leaving our kids, grandkids, etc. tons of radioactive stuff they shall take care of for many generations. YMMV
Yes, my bad, it's 232Th..

Here's a non-wikipedia article about MSR:
https://www.world-nuclear.org/informati ... ctors.aspx
Here's a bit about nuclear safety:
https://www.world-nuclear.org/informati ... ctors.aspx

Thorium is much less of a waste disposal problen than Uranium and Plutonium. The only reason that thorium was not researched on and used in the beginning of the nuclear power production was because the demand for weapons grade isotopes, which thorium is not.

There are also several articles in Norwegian (tu.no which is a technical news magazine, non-tabloid) about thorium and it is researched at NTNU (The Norwegian Technical Scientific University) where there is some progress.

But yes, I agree with you, fusion woul'd be much much more favourable than fission. Since the last fusion tests I read about lasted about 8 seconds, I think there is still many years into the future before we will obtain a stable and reliable fusion technology. Thus in the mean time, we should utilise a fission technology that is lesser of a waste problem than uranium and plutonium, i.e thorium. And of cource, I'm in favour of thorium since Norway has an abundance of it.

And again, the Cadillac WTF is supposed to run on thorium, albeit I can't find any articles newer than 2009, so that was a dead-end, I guess. Though the concept is promising in my opinion.

It is not my intention to insult you or any other person. I'm just curious and find it interesting with alternative energy sources.
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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:56 am

DA74254 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:50 am
... the Cadillac WTF...
The what?? :D
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:37 am

DA74254 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:50 am
Walter wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:21 pm
Looking at the technology, it's a fission reactor basically - producing persistent radioactive waste for which mankind hasn't found a reasonable way to get rid of in 70 years of nuclear (fission) power so far. As long as this waste problem remains unsolved, I vote against such a technology leaving our kids, grandkids, etc. tons of radioactive stuff they shall take care of for many generations. YMMV
Yes, my bad, it's 232Th..

Here's a non-wikipedia article about MSR:
https://www.world-nuclear.org/informati ... ctors.aspx
Here's a bit about nuclear safety:
https://www.world-nuclear.org/informati ... ctors.aspx

Thorium is much less of a waste disposal problen than Uranium and Plutonium. The only reason that thorium was not researched on and used in the beginning of the nuclear power production was because the demand for weapons grade isotopes, which thorium is not.

There are also several articles in Norwegian (tu.no which is a technical news magazine, non-tabloid) about thorium and it is researched at NTNU (The Norwegian Technical Scientific University) where there is some progress.

But yes, I agree with you, fusion woul'd be much much more favourable than fission. Since the last fusion tests I read about lasted about 8 seconds, I think there is still many years into the future before we will obtain a stable and reliable fusion technology. Thus in the mean time, we should utilise a fission technology that is lesser of a waste problem than uranium and plutonium, i.e thorium. And of cource, I'm in favour of thorium since Norway has an abundance of it.

And again, the Cadillac WTF is supposed to run on thorium, albeit I can't find any articles newer than 2009, so that was a dead-end, I guess. Though the concept is promising in my opinion.

It is not my intention to insult you or any other person. I'm just curious and find it interesting with alternative energy sources.
You didn't insult anybody so far AFAIK.

Thanks for the links; they deserve a longer read.

Nevertheless, on the quest for energy, nature has an advantage of some 3.xE9 years searching for, testing, and experimenting with energy sources for life. And it established several perfectly closed loops - such shall be the long range targets for human economy as well (if humans want to survive in the long range which I'm not sure about). At the bottom line, there are very few true human inventions after wheel and laser, so a closer look to nature (Greek: physis -> physikä) may pay.
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DA74254
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Re: 43S News

Post by DA74254 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:34 am

H2X wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:56 am
DA74254 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:50 am
... the Cadillac WTF...
The what?? :D
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/usa/ca ... s-wtf-2009
As mentioned; nothing substantial, really, since 2009 :)
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:40 am

DA74254 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:34 am
H2X wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:56 am
DA74254 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:50 am
... the Cadillac WTF...
The what?? :D
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/usa/ca ... s-wtf-2009
As mentioned; nothing substantial, really, since 2009 :)
I can't shake that pulling sensation in my leg, but surely there is some sense in carrying power rather than a power plant (nuclear, even) around in your car. Maybe that's what happened... :D

PS: Although I can see some problems with Lithium as that power carrying medium...
DM42 SN:00040 | The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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