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Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:10 pm
by H2X
jfb9301 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:39 pm
Why are the operators /*-+ on the left...
Come on, M - you say it! :-)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:25 pm
by keithdalby
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:08 pm
keithdalby wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:31 pm
I think it's just my personal preference, please don't pay me any more attention. I'm clearly in the minority :)
Hey Keith, don't you surrender! I'm still waiting for your explanation since there are a number of places you may have found more or less cluttered - but I simply don't know where you were refferring to (but I want to).
Okay, probably showing off my lack of knowledge mathematics and calculators:

Not a fan of the box.
Not a fan of so many annunciators.
Not a fan of the shifted soft menus.
Miss the X, Y, Z and T labels.
To my poor eyes, the font sizes for the numbers on the lines don't all seem the same. I could be wrong, of course!
I like SCI 04, which would of course be possible.
Those annunciators! I don't know what most of them mean, and I quite like some settings being buried in the flags.
I'm one of those few people who would prefer to XEQ and type function names than have them on the keyboard. FCN menu on the HP-42s is nice: less clutter.

All just my ill-informed opinion. Please do not take much stock in my opinions! I'm always happy to be corrected

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:27 pm
by keithdalby
I like the thousand separator. Not a fan of the alpha being smaller than the numbers

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:17 pm
by Over_score
jfb9301 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:39 pm
Looking back at the keyboard layout, I have a question.
Why are the operators /*-+ on the left and the exit, up, down... on the right?
My good old HP41CV has the 4 operators +-*/ on the left side and I was happy with it.
I think it's just a matter of habit :D

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:19 pm
by rprosperi
jfb9301 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:39 pm
Why are the operators /*-+ on the left and the exit, up, down... on the right?
Warning, religious topic under discussion....

The WP-34S, and to a lesser but still true extent the 43S, are motivated by the HP-34C (and to a lesser extent by the 42S) by folks that cut their RPN teeth on pre-Pioneer HP machines. After using those machines for nearly 20 years, the sudden switch to the right side (often accompanied by RPL or Algebraic oriented machines) was never quite... embraced. Strong arguments can be made both ways (and have been ... again and again...), but like all truly religious topics, minds are not changed by even compellingly good logic.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:58 pm
by Thomas Okken
rprosperi wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:19 pm
minds are not changed by even compellingly good logic
Which doesn't mean one should just stop trying. :mrgreen:

(Just kidding. Speaking as a long-time user of the HP-41 and HP-42S, and finding myself thoroughly indifferent on the operators-on-the-left vs. operators-on-the-right issue.)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:59 pm
by hpgene
Hi Walter (and all).

Forgive me if this has been discussed a lot already - no rehash intended - but the two things about the keyboard to me that I'm not happy happy about are PI being a primary key and x! seemingly all by itself down there.

I understand why x! is shift multiply but nearly everything down that direction is a menu except for the trig (again, understand why there) and then x!.

If there is a thread where these have been discussed, I'll be glad to follow a link and go read it.

Keep up the good work. I will buy one of these.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:58 pm
by rprosperi
Thomas Okken wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:58 pm
Which doesn't mean one should just stop trying. :mrgreen:

(Just kidding. Speaking as a long-time user of the HP-41 and HP-42S, and finding myself thoroughly indifferent on the operators-on-the-left vs. operators-on-the-right issue.)
I agree; I can use, and am happy with both layouts; even the Enter on the bottom-right of the 49/50g is easy to get used to after a few minutes of use. For me personally, this is not a religious topic... but for most folks, it seems to be. Maybe thinking about calculators while in Sunday-school (for me it was actually Tuesday-school as I recall) rather than thinking about the intended religious topics is the reason. :roll:

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 pm
by Walter
keithdalby wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:25 pm
  1. Not a fan of the box.
  2. Not a fan of so many annunciators.
  3. Not a fan of the shifted soft menus.
  4. Miss the X, Y, Z and T labels.
  5. To my poor eyes, the font sizes for the numbers on the lines don't all seem the same. I could be wrong, of course!
  6. I like SCI 04, which would of course be possible.
  7. Those annunciators! I don't know what most of them mean, and I quite like some settings being buried in the flags.
  8. I'm one of those few people who would prefer to XEQ and type function names than have them on the keyboard. FCN menu on the HP-42s is nice: less clutter.
(Numbers added by me)

Some answers:
  1. I'm not married to that box either. So, if you know something better, feel free to suggest it.
  2. I'm not a fan of memorizing arbitrary flag numbers. Personal preferences ...
  3. It's a method of using the abundant screen space in a smart way instead of burying functions in deep menus.
  4. I'm confident people can remember 4 letters and their sequence. But at the bottom line, only x and y are important designations - the names of the higher levels are not really needed. So my confidence must only cover two letters actually. Should be viable ... ;)
  5. Here you are wrong, sorry.
  6. It is. Promised.
  7. R stands for REALRES (else there is a C for CPXRES). The L stands for RECTangular (else there is a symbol for POLAR) coordinates in complex numbers. The angle symbol stands for the current angular display mode (DEG, RAD, GRAD, or multiples of pi). /max (or a number <9999) denotes DENMAX for fraction display. 64:2 stands for WSIZE and integer sign mode for finite integers - here 64 bits and 2's complement. And the top arrow denotes the program pointer pointing to step 0000, the top of program memory. I think, all these symbols are far more intuitive (and take significantly less space) than displaying e.g. flags 17, 19, 24, 31, etc. YMMV
  8. Feel free to use XEQ and type the function name as long as you know it by heart and for sure. There will be also a function submenu of CATALOG (like FCN on the HP-42S).
This is just my personal view of this matter. As mentioned YMMV. And I'm always open to good arguments.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:18 pm
by dlachieze
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 pm
And the top arrow denotes the program pointer pointing to step 0000, the top of program memory.
Why would you need this indicator? I would expect the program memory on the 43S to be managed with individual programs each starting at step 0001 and ending with END as for the 41C and 42S.