43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Wed May 29, 2019 12:23 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:54 am
akaTB wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 5:47 am
I was under the impression (at least from posts from the golden age, left elsewhere) that every key was reassignable in the 43s. Is it still so?
Massimo, almost all can be changed in the USER menu, as also per Walter’s reference. But ‘EXIT’ bottom right is recommended not to change, i.e. that is a problem for left/right swap.
You may reassign [EXIT] as well, you're just advised to take proper care since this is one of the essential functions.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Wed May 29, 2019 1:27 pm

Good to know that it’s possible.

Since I know how now and I am concerned that having two opposing ways (op’s left in normal mode, and op’s right in USER mode) while having one set of DM42 buttons only, may lead to frustration. If this is avoidable, I will pursue the way of eliminating the confusion, i.e. rather permanently try change the keys in the firmware.

Thanks for the response.

Edit1: fixed sentence structure.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Wed May 29, 2019 2:36 pm

For sake of preventing creation of legends, please note: As with the Pioneers, all buttons of the DM42 are one sprue; and all are printed at once. I guess this processing will not change significantly for the 43S. So while changing shifted labels will be easy, modifying individual physical keys will be difficult.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Wed May 29, 2019 2:57 pm

Thank you for the reminder. I do realise this.

My thoughts were that I will have to make an overlay and make stickers for the buttons, as both the shifted labels and primaries will be different due to the swap. The tail can’t wag the dog and even though not ideal, it is what it is.

Jaco
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:24 pm

Ian Abbott wrote elsewhere:
It would be nice if the WP-43S could support [Re⇄Im] on any number type, not just the complex types. There are various other functions on the CPX menu that could be changed to work on non-complex types too.
What shall this function do then? What "various other functions" do you have in mind? Thanks in advance for enlightenment.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

toml_12953
Posts: 529
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

Re: 43S News

Post by toml_12953 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:41 pm

Walter wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:24 pm
Ian Abbott wrote elsewhere:
It would be nice if the WP-43S could support [Re⇄Im] on any number type, not just the complex types. There are various other functions on the CPX menu that could be changed to work on non-complex types too.
What shall this function do then? What "various other functions" do you have in mind? Thanks in advance for enlightenment.
I'm confused (not unusual for me) Isn't the whole point of Re⇄Im to convert between a real and imaginary number? What other purpose could it have? Combining separate X-Y coordinates into a pair and vice-versa?
Tom L

My father was a man of the cloth. He was a tailor.

DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
ijabbott
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:34 pm
Location: GB-MAN

Re: 43S News

Post by ijabbott » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:41 pm

Walter wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:24 pm
Ian Abbott wrote elsewhere:
It would be nice if the WP-43S could support [Re⇄Im] on any number type, not just the complex types. There are various other functions on the CPX menu that could be changed to work on non-complex types too.
What shall this function do then? What "various other functions" do you have in mind? Thanks in advanceIfor enlightenment.
On HP-15C, [Re⇄Im] exchanges the real and imaginary parts of X (creating the imaginary stack first if necessary) and also disables stack lift, so you can enter both the real and imaginary parts in one stack position, so you don't lose Z. It can also be used for entering pure imaginary numbers. When the stack lifts, the imaginary X is set to 0 when you type a number, so pressing [Re⇄Im] leaves a pure imaginary number in X.

The other functions? Well they are not very useful for real numbers, but there is no reason why the UNITV, conjg, arg, Re, and Im functions couldn't work on a real number instead of producing an error.

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:01 pm

I further tested the Mac version of the WP43S emulator by doing arbitrary computations, and looking at the manual for guidance:


A. Issue:

The angular mode example on p119 of the v0.12 manual does not work in the step when 0.01047 rad needs to be converted to degrees using >DEG. The R>D command does however work to get to 0.60 Degrees. Also >D.MS does not work, but rather D>D.MS does work to get to 0deg36min. Also >MULpi does not work, but D.MS> does get it back to the current mode of MULpi, as 0.00333 pi.

Comment: The way that DEG>, RAD>, etc. only converts to the current angle mode does work, but it feels cumbersome to use, i.e. to keep thinking what the destination is every time. It can probably be improved as the calculator should be able to know all the steps to convert an angular value into another angular value as it knows the current and desired angular modes.

B. Suggestion:
What about specifying internal logic and applying it to the 10 angular conversion commands >DEG, DEG>, >RAD, RAD>, >GRAD..., such that only the 5 basic commands >>DEG, >>D.MS, >>RAD, >>GRAD, >>MULpi remain?

The way I understand it, is that the calculator will always know in which mode it is and therefore it already knows which of the 10 subroutines would be needed to get X (of known angular type) to the required angular mode.

Example of logic table:
In mode DEG, with a DEG value in X, If user presses >>DEG, X goes to X
In mode DEG, with a DEG value in X, If user presses >>RAD, >RAD is called
In mode DEG, with a DEG value in X, if user presses >>GRAD, >GRAD is called
In mode DEG, with a DEG value in X, if user presses >>MULpi, >MULpi is called
In mode DEG, with a RAD value in X, if user presses >>DEG, RAD> is called
In mode DEG, with a RAD value in X, if user presses >>RAD, and X goes to X
In mode DEG, with a RAD value in X, if user presses >>GRAD, RAD> is called, then >GRAD is called
In mode DEG, with a RAD value in X, if user presses >>MULpi, RAD> is called, then >MULpi is called
... and so forth for all the options. Of course there will be more elegand solutions to this, I am no coder.

Note I am using the >> to indicate new functions, as opposed to the > which indicates functions already existing.


C. Suggestion:
in the CPX menu, could it be considered to swap (angle) and (UNITV) commands, so that (angle and |x|) is a pair on the primary function keys, next to each other, as would (sign and UNITV) be a pair on the shifter keys?



D. Suggestion:
For ease of operation, at the TRI menu, maybe add (duplicate) the basic angular conversions commands on f and g keys, i.e.

Code: Select all

    >R      >P  
    >>DEG   >>RAD   >>GRAD  >>MULpi  >>D.MS
    sin     arcsin  cos     arccos   tan     arctan 
The >> explained in (B) above.


E. WP43S emulator mods.

I previously mentioned my need to have the WP43S work on my DM42, with stickers, with some changes to operation, texts and button layouts.

My emulator currently works in Entry RPN mode, has some labels changed from symbols to TEXT (eg. CONV instead of U>), and has the / * - + operators moved to the right. I understand the need for symbolic texts in an international market, but I make my calculator for myself, not for other languages, so I prefer the texts to be English based like the similar ones in previous calculators I used, and the operator keys like all the modern HPs I used before.

Of course these changes are NOT in the official development programme and probably not blessed by the team. Some things I changed were confirmed by Walter as not being in the development plan and therefore the only way for me to get them in my ultimate calculator is to try modify the code myself. The purpose for the efforts now was to confirm to myself whether it was possible to change the necessary things.

I snapped a picture off my Mac screen showing progress on the emulator mods thus far. I struggled to get a proper black background screen capture done of the emulator on my Mac, hence the old fashioned way of snapping a picture of my screen using a phone camera to show the emulator.

Image
Note: MODIFIED Calculator layout - NOT OFFICIAL
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Over_score
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 7:37 pm
Location: France

Re: 43S News

Post by Over_score » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:07 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:01 pm
A. Issue:

The angular mode example on p119 of the v0.12 manual does not work in the step when 0.01047 rad needs to be converted to degrees using >DEG. The R>D command does however work to get to 0.60 Degrees. Also >D.MS does not work, but rather D>D.MS does work to get to 0deg36min. Also >MULpi does not work, but D.MS> does get it back to the current mode of MULpi, as 0.00333 pi.
Thank you for reporting. Issue is fixed.
DM42 (SN 00284 & 03835), DM15L, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:44 am

Regarding suggestions C and D:
Can be done. Please note >R and >P can be accessed easier via the keyboard.

Regarding >>DEG etc. (comment A and suggestion B):
Please see the ReM. On pp. 142f, you find the angular conversions and also the underlying assumptions. With respect to the current angular display mode (ADM), please look to the status bar: it's always indicated there.

(Edited to specify the page.)

Edit2: addendum: There are tagged angles but they're the easy part since there may be also untagged angular inputs to trig functions. You will need the ADM there at latest.

Edit3: suggestion C will be adopted. Thanks!
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

Post Reply