WP43 News

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
Bill K. - USA
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Re: 43S News

Post by Bill K. - USA »

rudi wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:52 am
Why not use the common mathematical notation, a raised + or - after the number.

\(27/5^{-}\) to indicate very close to but less than and \(27/5^{+}\) to indicate very close to but greater than
That could work too, especially if the "+" and "-" are clearly raised (like a footnote) and are in a smaller font (as you demonstrate) so as not to imply a pending mathematical operation. Barring that, the "+" and "-" could be given in parentheses after the value: "27/5 (+)" and "27/5 (-)".
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

How about using FBR to check the characters available?
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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rudi
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Re: 43S News

Post by rudi »

Walter wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:41 pm
How about using FBR to check the characters available?
Just did here: https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/wp34s-om-en.pdf

And there doesn’t seem to be either of the raised symbols.
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

rudi wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:44 pm
Walter wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:41 pm
How about using FBR to check the characters available?
Just did here: https://literature.hpcalc.org/community/wp34s-om-en.pdf

And there doesn’t seem to be either of the raised symbols.
Seems to be too difficult, hence:
  1. Take your 43S (not 34S!). Feel free to use the simulator or the calculator.
  2. Start it.
  3. Call alpha.FN (located on g-shifted SQRT).
  4. Call FBR therein.
  5. Choose your favourite character.
Enjoy!

And a big THANKYOU to all the contributors and readers of this thread for more than 500 000 views since 2018. We will continue our work to offer you the best RPN pocket calculator we can program.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Bill K. - USA wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:05 pm
I understand why [f] and [g] and [F1]-[F6] are restricted from being remapped by [f][ASN]. But I'd like to argue that [f][α] is a different fish.

--For one thing, it's not a primary function.

--For another, my main goal in re-mapping keys is simply this: I'd like to make my DM42 into a WP43S by using just a template without the need for key stickers. The problem I have is that the DM42 [XEQ] key is the button on which the WP43S [f][α] function resides--but I'd like to keep [f][GTO] and [g][FLAG] attached to the [XEQ] key, if possible. Meanwhile, the existing DM42 yellow shift key (i.e., the [-] key on the WP43S) is perfectly colored to stand out as a third shift key, which IMO makes it ideal for [f][α].

Would it be too difficult to permit [f][ASN] to work with [f][α]ALPHA[ENTER] also?
Bill, I comprehend your wish. You can look at this challenge from three sides:
  1. The HP-41C, the first (?) calculator featuring an assignable keyboard, allowed reassigning all labels except [gold] and [ALPHA]. In analogy, we allow for reassigning with the exceptions you quoted above.
  2. It's not our objective to stay (keyboard) compatible with the HP-42S or DM42. The 43S will get its own keyboard.
  3. IMHO, the present position of [alpha] next to [f] and [g] is close to optimum.
You can sketch other keyboards, of course; feel free to do so but then do it entirely, please. If and when you achieve a better solution, present it to us. Wishing you success.

About fractions:
About (1): A display showing 27/5 > tells us that the fraction 27/5 is greater than (>) the underlying real number. Exactly this is explained in the OM. I think this is easy, and it's the way introduced with the WP 34S in 2011.
About (2): DECOMP decomposes a fraction. Also this is explained in the OM. I.e. 27/5 > DECOMP returns the same numbers as 27/5 < DECOMP.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
Bill K. - USA
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Re: 43S News

Post by Bill K. - USA »

Walter: Thank you for the responses.

I've no wish to recommend layout changes to the WP43S for use with the future DM42-follow-on body: I'm sure the layout you've come up with is very good! I'm only trying to make it easier in the interim to use ASN on my current DM42 so as to avoid key stickers.

(The only change I'd prefer is to keep the basic "+-*/" functions on the right side because that's what I'm used to, and because the physical key width and positioning of those right-side keys is such that it groups them with the number keys, unlike the narrower keys on the lower left side of the DM42. But I know this issue has been discussed in detail, and there's nothing new I can add to the discussion--and I can use the calculator just fine with either left-side or right-side basic arithmetic keys. I'd also like y^x to be a primary key function, but I understand we've run out of keys--and I can work around it with MyMenu.)

I like Rudi's fraction suggestion to change any trailing "<" and ">" to superscript "+" and "-" (e.g., character codes 207A and 207B). I think it'd be a helpful clarity improvement, and like he says it would follow standard mathematical nomenclature (unlike the current trailing < or >).

But I understand about DECOMP working on the fraction, not on the value in the x-register: it's a design choice whether to decompose the fraction or to decompose the x-register value itself (and I can get the true value by using SHOW), so I'm okay with that too.

Thank you again, and thanks most especially for this superb powerful calculator!
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

rudi wrote:
Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:52 am
Why not use the common mathematical notation, a raised + or - after the number.[?]

\(27/5^{-}\) to indicate very close to but less than and \(27/5^{+}\) to indicate very close to but greater than
Could be done. Personally, I don't remember that notation from some decades ago and didn't come across it recently. And I don't know whether it's more intuitive than the < and > signs implemented in the WP 34S and 43S as is. We can run a poll if you like.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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rudi
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Re: 43S News

Post by rudi »

I will try and see, if I can find it in any of my math books. We used it all the time, when I studied on navigation school and university.
For limits, series, asymptotich functions and more. For example if an expression is asymptoticaly approaching a value from "left"/"negative" or "right"/"positive".
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
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Bill K. - USA
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Re: 43S News

Post by Bill K. - USA »

I remember back in my college days using superscript +/- it to indicate a value slightly higher or lower than the indicated number, but I can't pull out a specific textbook. It's a standard notation I use all the time, though, when measuring something with a ruler: if something is just a smidge larger than 3/4 of an inch, I write "3/4+", or I write "3/4-" if it's a smidge less than 3/4 of an inch. Then when I go to the table saw, I know which side of my measurement mark to cut on.

This link https://math.stackexchange.com/question ... t-notation (and others) discuss how a superscript + means approaching a value from the right or above [as in the limit of f(x) as x approaches, say, 0+] and a superscript - means approaching a value from the left (from below), so I think the meaning of "\(7/5^{+}\)" and "\(7/5^{-}\)" would be clear.

I don't have a problem with the "<" or ">" except that you're putting the sign after the fraction, which is confusing to me. If you make it a prefix (and reverse the sign) instead of a suffix, then the confusion goes away: e.g., "> 7/5" instead of "7/5 <". Better yet would be "≳ 7/5" and "≲ 7/5", but those symbols aren't present in the FBR.
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rudi
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Re: 43S News

Post by rudi »

rudi wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:21 am
I will try and see, if I can find it in any of my math books. We used it all the time, when I studied on navigation school and university.
For limits, series, asymptotich functions and more. For example if an expression is asymptoticaly approaching a value from "left"/"negative" or "right"/"positive".
I couldn’t find any references in any of my calculus books (Kreyzig and Thommas&Finney)
But several online like the one Bill K links to
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
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