43S News

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
gmac42
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Re: 43S News

Post by gmac42 »

What is untypical for HP though, is having shifted functions on the shift keys. This still feels slightly "wrong" to me.
But I vaguely remember that this has been discussed already. (Although I don't remember what the reasoning was for keeping it like that.)
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

gmac42 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:52 pm
What is untypical for HP though, is having shifted functions on the shift keys. This still feels slightly "wrong" to me.
But I vaguely remember that this has been discussed already. (Although I don't remember what the reasoning was for keeping it like that.)
It was 'invented' here: viewtopic.php?p=12620#p12620 (WP invent). More may be found there. IIRC the reason was to have two more label locations which are independent of the modes the calculator is in. Something like the famous four top keys on the HP-41C.
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gmac42
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Re: 43S News

Post by gmac42 »

Thank you Walter for the pointer.

My personal feeling is that the Correct(TM) behaviour for the shift keys would be:
F, F -> (no shift)
F, G -> G
G, F -> F
G, G -> (no shift)

This just feels very intuitive to me, and it would also save you one keypress when you have accidentally pressed the wrong shift key. ;-)

But I can see there are also good arguments for the way it is now.
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rawi
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Re: 43S News

Post by rawi »

Instead of using the places above the f and g keys why not use the places above the "7" and "8" keys?
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Walter wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:21 pm
gmac42 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:52 pm
What is untypical for HP though, is having shifted functions on the shift keys. This still feels slightly "wrong" to me.
But I vaguely remember that this has been discussed already. (Although I don't remember what the reasoning was for keeping it like that.)
It was 'invented' here: viewtopic.php?p=12620#p12620 (WP invent). More may be found there. IIRC the reason was to have two more label locations which are independent of the modes the calculator is in. Something like the famous four top keys on the HP-41C.
(Emphasis added)

"7" and "8" change meanings in alpha input mode while "f" and "g" don't.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos »

PierreMengisen wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:37 pm
Couldn't we leave all the buttons in HP brown?
I like the fresh perspective of the suggestion for more subtle shift keys. The current stark contrast is not really helping to find a button.

I really like the removal of x² in favour of √x.

I am glad to see ELLI goes to the menu, but INTS? I think in the context of the # which is there already, BITS would probably have been more fitting for HP16C reasons, even though rather than a shortcut to either menu, conversion to integer would suit even better, such as any of IP or ROUNDI (or RNDn which does not exist). Of those I think IP would truncate a real (as # does) and convert a shortint to longint which would help as most math work on real/integer only.

I dislike |x| being split from ⦣ on the CC button. Also, there is no reason CPX must be actually on CC. Next to it, or in the vicinity is fine. There is space for CPX on x⇋y, as U⇾ does not really need to have moved up there.

The most disturbing would be the placement of π in the bottom part, far away from the menu area on screen (which hosts SIN/COS/TAN in the TRI menu and DEG/RAD... in the MODE menu).
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Whether BITS or INTS move up is up to you (pl.).
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BK42
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Re: 43S News

Post by BK42 »

I am new to this forum and trying to keep up. gently, I’d like to suggest a few ideas

1. full colored shift keys like HP would add a sense of variation, appeal and energy to the keyboard that is already overloaded. If there was a specific discussion about this pls accept my apologies for ignorance.

2. I noticed that “f” and “g” are off center.. was there a reason for g to be sitting lower than f. Could they be aligned in the center line.

3. And again there may have been a specific decision for this… Pls allow me to suggest, if possible, that giving direct authority to the shift keys, like in HPs version or DM41X i.e not diminish their roles and identity by cross linking, would reflect simplicity and purity of the overall functionality and design, inside out. Standing tall among crowded key functions… Arguably, it could also eliminate the risk of presenting an image of “we are the engineers and do smart designs”.
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Thanks for your remarks. I'll try answering:
  1. I concur. If we can get full colored prefixes, we'll join you voting for them. (Things have changed in this matter during the course of this project more than once.)
  2. The reason is that the lower ends of f and g are on different levels in plain text as well. And we even put f a bit lower and g a bit higher.
  3. I have to admit I didn't quite get this point of you. Please elaborate. What do you want here?
Some background you may know already (but I don't know whether you know): We cut our teeth at the WP34S, a layout with three shift keys. So if you want to see a 'crowded' layout, please look there. The WP34S is on the market since 2011, and almost all users are very content with it. Furthermore, there is a WP31 featuring only one shift key. Just search the net a bit.

For further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

If you have any wishes and/or remarks still, please speak ... ummh ... write up. Else I'll close this inquiry tomorrow, 2021-05-03 12:00 UTC. Presently, it looks like BITS and INTS will swap.
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