WP43 News

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

redglyph wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:23 am
ben.titmus wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:31 pm
Key layouts in general have been discussed over and over again on the GitLab page and on this forum. It is difficult to find these discussions though. In reality the key layout is not going to change now. Anything about the physical calculator is now fixed and would be difficult to change without very good reason. Anything that's firmware related can still be easily changed.
I wasn't told so even after proposing a first slight change (quite the contrary, "try again"...), but it makes sense and that's what I deduced from the lack of interest. It's sad, considering there are still free labels for dearly missing operations and some inconsistencies but nothing is perfect. As last resort there's still the user mode. :)
There are keys, and their labels are fixed meanwhile (cf. Gorbachev). And there are labels on the bezel - their labels can be overwritten by overlays IF you have very convincing arguments, i.e. if you propose a layout acceptable for the developers so they drop their present layout for yours. They'll look for the overall picture, not just for one or two labels you want changed. ... ... etc. ... etc. ... Processes are more complex than you might imagine since the developers feel responsible for the WP43S.

At the bottom line, after almost ten years, basic changes are more difficult to enforce than at project start. And non-developers are entitled to suggest and advertise their proposals but the developers are entitled to accept or decline - even without posting their reasons. Such is life.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
redglyph
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Re: 43S News

Post by redglyph »

gmac42 wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:48 am
redglyph wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:23 am
I appreciate it's difficult to keep track, I've been there. That's why some tricks like dedicated threads, or better, issues in GitHub (or GitLab I think - I don't know it well) are more appropriate. People would need a login there for the latter though, so forums are easier for many users indeed.
They need a login for the forum too, right? (Or can you post anonymously here? I honestly never checked.)
But people knew the project from here or MoHPC, so they already have an account. It's less likely they have it on GitLab, which is a specialized site and not a general forum. If they're not familiar or at ease with that, it may be enough of an obstacle to create yet another account, especially over there.
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Re: 43S News

Post by redglyph »

Walter wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:37 pm
There are keys, and their labels are fixed meanwhile (cf. Gorbachev). And there are labels on the bezel - their labels can be overwritten by overlays IF you have very convincing arguments, i.e. if you propose a layout acceptable for the developers so they drop their present layout for yours. They'll look for the overall picture, not just for one or two labels you want changed. ... ... etc. ... etc. ... Processes are more complex than you might imagine since the developers feel responsible for the WP43S.

At the bottom line, after almost ten years, basic changes are more difficult to enforce than at project start. And non-developers are entitled to suggest and advertise their proposals but the developers are entitled to accept or decline - even without posting their reasons. Such is life.
That's not really the point. I don't know how many times I must repeat this, ... Actually I won't.

But you can try to convince me and maybe I will. ;)

Seriously, I'm only reacting to give feedback on the procedure, let's forget about the initial proposals. I understand that the hardware is fixed now.
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X »

redglyph wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:06 pm
But people knew the project from here or MoHPC, so they already have an account. It's less likely they have it on GitLab, which is a specialized site and not a general forum. If they're not familiar or at ease with that, it may be enough of an obstacle to create yet another account, especially over there.
Well, if you want to influence the government, you must vote. And in order to vote, you must get to where the ballot boxes are. Otherwise we're really just exchanging opinions.
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
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Re: 43S News

Post by redglyph »

H2X wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:30 pm
redglyph wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:06 pm
But people knew the project from here or MoHPC, so they already have an account. It's less likely they have it on GitLab, which is a specialized site and not a general forum. If they're not familiar or at ease with that, it may be enough of an obstacle to create yet another account, especially over there.
Well, if you want to influence the government, you must vote. And in order to vote, you must get to where the ballot boxes are. Otherwise we're really just exchanging opinions.
It's so ambiguous and remote from the situation that I'm not sure what you really mean by that, or how it helps. Do you mean that users/potential customers should register to GitLab to report bugs and that forums are only for exchanging opinions? Those 2 threads were not created by them.
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X »

redglyph wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:55 am
H2X wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:30 pm
redglyph wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:06 pm
But people knew the project from here or MoHPC, so they already have an account. It's less likely they have it on GitLab, which is a specialized site and not a general forum. If they're not familiar or at ease with that, it may be enough of an obstacle to create yet another account, especially over there.
Well, if you want to influence the government, you must vote. And in order to vote, you must get to where the ballot boxes are. Otherwise we're really just exchanging opinions.
It's so ambiguous and remote from the situation that I'm not sure what you really mean by that, or how it helps. Do you mean that users/potential customers should register to GitLab to report bugs and that forums are only for exchanging opinions? Those 2 threads were not created by them.
OK, I' try to be more clear. Sorry for any confusion.

The name of this forum topic or thread, if you will, is "43S News". It was created by Walter a long time ago.

Ergo, the initiative was his and he was free to decide the purpose and how to convey it. I think he did a pretty decent job in communicating that it was intended as a one-way channel for news about the project, to anyone who might have an interest. The rest of us being who we are couldn't help ourselves, so we chimed in with all kinds of relevant and irrelevant comments, some of which Walter - and his team - responded to in various ways.

AFAIK, there never was a "request for feedback" topic, and AFAIK this topic has not had any other name than "43S News".

So why insist that this topic should be something is isn't, and never was meant to be?

And after having been offered a way to make your voice heard, by a member of the development team, which fits the way they work and is good for them - why isn't that good enough?

Or why not just create another topic here, and give it a name and purpose of your choosing? I am 100% certain that people will jump on it, although I'm not equally certain that the 43S team will. Nor do I think they have the obligation.

Was this more clear?
What is the metric tensor in imperial units?
redglyph
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Re: 43S News

Post by redglyph »

Ah, thanks for taking the time to elaborate, and you have a few good points.
H2X wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:47 pm
AFAIK, there never was a "request for feedback" topic, and AFAIK this topic has not had any other name than "43S News".

So why insist that this topic should be something is isn't, and never was meant to be?
I don't know why people insist doing it, but I suppose it happened as you said. It was probably encouraged by this (2nd post): "Please feel free to ask questions, comment, suggest changes, praise, condemn, etc.". Which makes perfect sense for a new project, anyone would do the same. I'm not criticizing that. But after a while, perhaps it makes sense to bring some structure to avoid losing track.
H2X wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:47 pm
And after having been offered a way to make your voice heard, by a member of the development team, which fits the way they work and is good for them - why isn't that good enough?

Or why not just create another topic here, and give it a name and purpose of your choosing? I am 100% certain that people will jump on it, although I'm not equally certain that the 43S team will. Nor do I think they have the obligation.
I'm only taking stock after witnessing missed or misread suggestions and bug reports from several people, again I don't care about what I reported anymore since it's not my project. If information was lost, it's not my problem and definitely not my fault but it doesn't harm to give the feedback if nobody else cares to do it. So, it's only a suggestion for the future that sprang when I saw another invitation to make suggestions here.

"why isn't that good enough", I never said that, I just mentioned that maybe not everyone was ready to register on GitLab, maybe I'm wrong. Either way something is certain: this post will quickly be lost in history, so if nothing is done, it will simply continue as before.

Anyway, I'll stop here since the message was delivered and explained ad nauseam. :)
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

redglyph wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:52 pm
Anyway, I'll stop here since the message was delivered and explained ad nauseam. :)
I concur. 8-)
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

After the pilot series of WP43 was released in Allschwil yesterday, I'd suggest closing this very long thread now, assuming there will be a dedicated subforum for WP43 in near future. Dear admins, is this a realistic option?

Thanks to all contributors and testers here - see you again soon at said subforum.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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Re: 43S News

Post by rprosperi »

Walter wrote:
Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:24 pm
After the pilot series of WP43 was released in Allschwil yesterday, I'd suggest closing this very long thread now, assuming there will be a dedicated subforum for WP43 in near future. Dear admins, is this a realistic option?

Thanks to all contributors and testers here - see you again soon at said subforum.
Yes, coming soon...
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
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