43S News

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
ecsfang
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Re: 43S News

Post by ecsfang »

PierreMengisen wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:35 pm
No, the second ENTER is not necessary. X is a value in x registre. So with the first ENTER you push it in y registre.

Hello to all Sweden and the northern countries, the beautiful winter season is coming .
Greatings
Hello Pierre!
Thanks for the greetings! Unfortunately ( ? ) I live in the southern flat part of Sweden, where the snow seldom stays on the ground and the rain comes sideways! :lol:

Yes, you are right, X will enter the y register, and 3 in x. But after the -, x is replaced by 'X-3' and y is restored to it's previous (unknown) value. So the multiplication will be between the 'X-3' and the unknown y-value. Therefore a second Enter, or LastX (or RCL * ST L as Rudi elegantly proposed) has to be used to recall the X-value again.

Try it on a calculator with full stack view (eg DM41x or HP48) ;)

Best regards,
Thomas
[35/45/65/67/25/29C/31E/33E/41C|CV|CX/71B/10C/11C/15C/16C/32SII/42S/28S/48GX/49G/35S/DM41X(#00456)]
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PierreMengisen
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Re: 43S News

Post by PierreMengisen »

ecsfang wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:36 am
PierreMengisen wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:35 pm
No, the second ENTER is not necessary. X is a value in x registre. So with the first ENTER you push it in y registre.

Hello to all Sweden and the northern countries, the beautiful winter season is coming .
Greatings
Hello Pierre!
Thanks for the greetings! Unfortunately ( ? ) I live in the southern flat part of Sweden, where the snow seldom stays on the ground and the rain comes sideways! :lol:

Yes, you are right, X will enter the y register, and 3 in x. But after the -, x is replaced by 'X-3' and y is restored to it's previous (unknown) value. So the multiplication will be between the 'X-3' and the unknown y-value. Therefore a second Enter, or LastX (or RCL * ST L as Rudi elegantly proposed) has to be used to recall the X-value again.

Try it on a calculator with full stack view (eg DM41x or HP48) ;)

Best regards,
Thomas
Please don't argue!
What I meant was that X in a formula is an activated value, e.g. 103.899 ENTER. As long as ENTER is not done, there is no X. So we all agree.

In Switzerland, at the moment, there is a lot of fog (I live at 450 m altitude) and it is a bit sad. I hope that tomorrow the ski races in Levi (FIN) will take place in the sun.

Greetings again.
Pierre
[TI59 with PC100C; TI-84 Plus CE-T; HP41CV with HP IL loop & 2*82161A DCD & 82162 TP; HP15C; HP28S; DM41; DM41L; DM42; DM41X]
jwiede
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Re: 43S News

Post by jwiede »

Jaymos wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:23 pm
That way, there is no spelling issue. Also no human memory issue to remember the spelling. You pick the one you want. Also, the calculator industry is full of variants of writing the same functions including caps. (Also sinh, hsin, hypsin, etc.)
This is precisely the problem I was getting it, or rather, trying to help: Those who only used HPs (say, 41-42 family) might instantly know a priori what naming and casing to use. However, for those coming from other backgrounds (enticing ALL into RPN bliss is the goal, no? ;) ), it's probable they've encountered endless arbitrary variations of abbreviations and capitalizations for such "fundamental" functions.

That's why I'm suggesting there be both "standardization" (built-in functions _all_ be lower-case, whether trig/trans, ln/log, what have you) PLUS catalog or equivalent "prompting" to handle the case where the poor user's guesses just aren't working out -- we've all been there, and having catalog or auto-completion can be a godsend in those cases. However, catalog alone won't efficiently solve the problem for many users, thus standardization of casing for functions would also be quite useful.

Further, it might be worth making certain very-common or known-conflict-y functions be recognized in any casing (and then corrected to their lower-case form), that would likely be the best UX of all. Lacking that, at least for the functions printed on the keys in upper-case, perhaps provide upper-case "aliases" to the proper lower-case function name? How costly would it be to support "SIN" pointing to "sin", etc. for the few keyboard-printed functions?

Aside, to Walter & co., I'm absolutely gob-smacked at all the hard work put into this, and incredibly appreciative of every bit of it (and as a three-plus-decade embedded/system SWEng, even willing to offer what few spare cycles I can afford, though I'm still spinning up on the source). Please don't misconstrue my comments as being either unappreciative or casual snark, neither is my intention -- if it did come across that way, my apologies.

I'm just running through all the "foolish user" UX scenarios that spring to my mind when I see this stuff discussed, and offering ways to help avoid them from becoming serious pain points /discouragements for new users. I'm fairly new to the DM42, and HP41/42 series in general myself -- more a 16C and very, very novice 48-50 series guy prior. As such, I'm trying to offer the advantages of my "fresh eyes" before they disappear (which, obviously, happens very quickly).
DM42(ordered), DM16L(sn:4068)
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

@jwiede:
Thanks for your kind offer. Very welcome! For getting a first idea of the 43S, please take a look at its Owner's Manual (called OM for good reasons). Start reading and tell us what you would do differently or where you came across. Don't be afraid, we can defend ourselves. And sometimes we even have good reasons for writing something the way we did. But fresh eyes can be very beneficial.

Feel free to use the Private Message feature of this forum if you like to.
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HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-35S; WP 34S & WP 31S for obvious reasons; DM16L
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Release 0.21.1 is here https://gitlab.com/Over_score/wp43s/-/releases. Now you can also solve TVM problems (thanks to Mihail again). HP made it a bit challenging for us since they switched signs in their TVM formula sometimes after the HP-27. But I think we made it now. Note equations in EQN are evaluated following PFEMDAS. Please note the Solver is work in progress still. And you can start customizing your 43S now: ASSIGN works! (thanks to Mihail). -- And you could compute programmed sums and products if programming was possible (alas, it isn't yet).

Included in the release package is everything you may want to try, test, and check the 43S on your computer or your DM42. Please look into the new editions of the manuals for more information in these matters (new or changed passages compared the last upload are marked in red).

Enjoy!

And if you discover anything suboptimal unknown yet, please report. There are certainly some issues - who finds one will get 19 test points.
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HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-35S; WP 34S & WP 31S for obvious reasons; DM16L
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PierreMengisen
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Re: 43S News

Post by PierreMengisen »

Walter wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:45 pm
Release 0.21.1
Thanks, there is progress in the equation editor. But...

fig01.png
fig01.png (7.32 KiB) Viewed 165 times

and...
fig02.png
fig02.png (7 KiB) Viewed 165 times

and still too bad...
fig03.png
fig03.png (7.19 KiB) Viewed 165 times

:?: Moreover, why do we still need to press EXIT twice to correct an error?
Pierre
[TI59 with PC100C; TI-84 Plus CE-T; HP41CV with HP IL loop & 2*82161A DCD & 82162 TP; HP15C; HP28S; DM41; DM41L; DM42; DM41X]
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

Bonjour, Pierre, let's look at your examples lifo:
  • There is no implicit multiplication. Please write every operator.
  • Your equation of 13:55 is too complex for a 4-level stack. Please set SSIZE8.
  • Your equation of 13:48 is virtually the same. Remember PFEMDAS for algbraic calculations, so there may be easily more pending operations than you have ever experienced in RPN.
And about your double EXIT: I don't observe that here.
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HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-35S; WP 34S & WP 31S for obvious reasons; DM16L
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PierreMengisen
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Re: 43S News

Post by PierreMengisen »

Walter wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 pm
  • There is no implicit multiplication. Please write every operator.
not really, for example
-SQRT(x^x) is an implicit multiplication -1*SQRT(x^x)
but you are right, it is indicated in the RM.

Walter wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 pm
  • too complex for a 4-level stack. Please set SSIZE8.
Not exact. My example
expl.png
expl.png (2.9 KiB) Viewed 109 times
is a 3-level stack calculation.
Let's see for the value x=5
5 , ENTER , x^2 , "x exchange y" , 1 , + , 2^x , 5 , CHS , * , +
et voilà

Walter wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 pm

And about your double EXIT: I don't observe that here.
Create the following equation and activate the SOLVER. You get the error "No such function" (which is correct)
fig10.png
fig10.png (12.28 KiB) Viewed 109 times

Press EXIT. Only the error message is erased.
fig11.png
fig11.png (11.12 KiB) Viewed 109 times
You have to press EXIT a second time to return to the editor
Pierre
[TI59 with PC100C; TI-84 Plus CE-T; HP41CV with HP IL loop & 2*82161A DCD & 82162 TP; HP15C; HP28S; DM41; DM41L; DM42; DM41X]
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter »

PierreMengisen wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:47 pm
Walter wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 pm
  • too complex for a 4-level stack. Please set SSIZE8.
Not exact. My example expl.pngis a 3-level stack calculation.
Let's see for the value x=5
5 , ENTER , x^2 , "x exchange y" , 1 , + , 2^x , 5 , CHS , * , +
et voilà
Set SSIZE8 and you get it solved - that's the only advice I can give you. Please take it or leave it. No use arguing with a machine.

I'll check your double EXIT later.

EDIT: The double EXIT is as advertized:
  1. You edit an equation (with a syntax error) and leave the Editor via ENTER.
  2. You decide to enter the Solver.
  3. Therein, you enter a value and press Calc - you'll get 'No such function' in return.
  4. Pressing EXIT erases the error message.
  5. Now you're back at the position 3 where you could enter a value and press Calc; but you want to leave the Solver to return to the Editor; this costs you another ENTER.
(How can the poor 43S guess what the big user wants if it can only see what he keys in?)
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HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-35S; WP 34S & WP 31S for obvious reasons; DM16L
dlachieze
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Re: 43S News

Post by dlachieze »

Well, the equation editor and the solver in the latest version of Plus42 from Thomas Okken work perfectly well with a 4-level stack and the first equation from Pierre:

_20211123_230336.JPG
_20211123_230336.JPG (83.07 KiB) Viewed 84 times
_20211123_230420.JPG
_20211123_230420.JPG (71.31 KiB) Viewed 84 times
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066
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