I've been a supporter of right-sided operators like the 42S from the beginning.
If they have to be on the left, the order doesn't matter to me.
Martin
WP43 News
- Over_score
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Re: 43S News
DM42 SN00284 & SN03835 running C47, HP34C, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime
- Over_score
- Posts: 160
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- Location: France
Re: 43S News
The last poll on this subject being in 2012, I would tend to propose a new poll to the roughly 80 members of the forum having "pre-ordered" a 43S in this thread.
4 choices:
left or right and bottom up + - × / or / × + -
What do you think Walter?
4 choices:
left or right and bottom up + - × / or / × + -
What do you think Walter?
DM42 SN00284 & SN03835 running C47, HP34C, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime
Re: 43S News
Not again, please!Over_score wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:30 amThe last poll on this subject being in 2012, I would tend to propose a new poll to the roughly 80 members of the forum having "pre-ordered" a 43S in this thread.
4 choices:
left or right and bottom up + - × / or / × + -
What do you think Walter?
The initial poll was already reissued since not everybody was pleased with the result.
Instead of polls could you please just release this calc? Or it is doomed to follow the fate of THE BOOK?
Greetings,
Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong Casted in gold
Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong Casted in gold
Re: 43S News
Poll is a good suggestion. Maybe the three options, scored or ranked.
I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.
Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.
So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.
Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.
So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
Elec Eng, South Africa
https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
-
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:46 pm
- Location: Malone, NY USA
Re: 43S News
I think the votes of the people who got in on the now-closed beta run (disclaimer: I'm one of those) should be weighted more than the people who either weren't interested before or couldn't decide whether or not to order one. We have actually committed to putting our money where our mouth is. Unless the Creator is going to design by fiat, he should listen to the people who will certainly buy one. If he's the lone decider, then what's with all the polls and suggestions allowed? Just tell us, "It's going to be this way. Buy it or don't." HP didn't formally ask customers what they wanted before they introduced calculators and they were very successful.Jaymos wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:02 pmPoll is a good suggestion. Maybe the three options, scored or ranked.
I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.
Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.
So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
Tom L
Some people call me inept but I'm as ept as anybody!
DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM41X SN: 00506 (Shipping)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)
WP43 SN: 00025 (Prototype)
Some people call me inept but I'm as ept as anybody!
DM10L SN: 059/100
DM41X SN: 00023 (Beta)
DM41X SN: 00506 (Shipping)
DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
DM42 SN: 00221 (Shipping)
WP43 SN: 00025 (Prototype)
Re: 43S News
Ditto!toml_12953 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:37 pmI think the votes of the people who got in on the now-closed beta run (disclaimer: I'm one of those) should be weighted more than the people who either weren't interested before or couldn't decide whether or not to order one. We have actually committed to putting our money where our mouth is. Unless the Creator is going to design by fiat, he should listen to the people who will certainly buy one. If he's the lone decider, then what's with all the polls and suggestions allowed? Just tell us, "It's going to be this way. Buy it or don't." HP didn't formally ask customers what they wanted before they introduced calculators and they were very successful.Jaymos wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:02 pmPoll is a good suggestion. Maybe the three options, scored or ranked.
I can see the advantage to ask those who committed. However, restricting it to those, is also like asking catholic monks if they are catholic. The 80 odd people already made peace with the fact it is as advertised, whether they like it or not, and excludes those who did not commit for not wanting the current option.
Example: I have not commited as I won’t buy or commit to it as it is now (left, new sequence), but I may vote to have a 43S left side in the traditional sequence, even if only for old time sake. I don’t need it on the right side anymore, as I will convert one of my DM42 units to C43 soon.
So, a fresh poll is great idea. Maybe every 4 years (joke). Just make sure there is no voter fraud (joke).
And people who expressed interest several years ago on the former polls, should be weighted even more.
Why should we start another war right now?
Just do it, for heaven's sake!
Greetings,
Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong Casted in gold
Massimo
ajcaton
-+×÷ left is right and right is wrong Casted in gold
Re: 43S News
I don't think a vote is a good idea. It is like the two wolves and a sheep deciding on lunch.
When it comes to product design, I prefer responsibility of the maker (if he is capable).
What I like are reasoned procedures, what I don't like is the clapping together components (as some cheap Chinese manufacturers do).
Three "designs" are currently being discussed.
1. Classic design (HP35, HP41C style)
2. "Later" design (HP35S, HP42S style)
3. Mixed design (41 layout, 42 order)
If you choose 1st or 2nd, each other's users will be a little annoyed, but they get used to it.
If you use all three computers, everyone only has to get used to 2 layouts.
With the 3rd layout, for the users of the 2nd this is not much different from switching to the 1st, but for users of the classic design this may be much more annoying. If you use all three computers, you now have to use three layouts.
The question that arises: layout 3 has disadvantages for users of layout 1 and 2 but what advantages and for whom?
When it comes to product design, I prefer responsibility of the maker (if he is capable).
What I like are reasoned procedures, what I don't like is the clapping together components (as some cheap Chinese manufacturers do).
Three "designs" are currently being discussed.
1. Classic design (HP35, HP41C style)
2. "Later" design (HP35S, HP42S style)
3. Mixed design (41 layout, 42 order)
If you choose 1st or 2nd, each other's users will be a little annoyed, but they get used to it.
If you use all three computers, everyone only has to get used to 2 layouts.
With the 3rd layout, for the users of the 2nd this is not much different from switching to the 1st, but for users of the classic design this may be much more annoying. If you use all three computers, you now have to use three layouts.
The question that arises: layout 3 has disadvantages for users of layout 1 and 2 but what advantages and for whom?
My programmable calculators - former: CBM PR100, HP41CV, HP28S, HP11C - current: HP48G(256kB), HP35S, Prime, DM41X, DM42
Re: 43S News
Whenever a poll is closed and counted, people will wake up who
What did we learn from the poll of 2012 which was presented to a slightly more numerous crowd of HP calculator aficionados than visiting this forum here?
EDIT: To be safer, I should say "before THE BOOK materializes" instead.
- forgot to vote,
- didn't read carefully,
- aren't content with the outcome.
What did we learn from the poll of 2012 which was presented to a slightly more numerous crowd of HP calculator aficionados than visiting this forum here?
- Voters wanted ENTER and the four arithmetic operators in one column, for ergonomic reasons (compare also the Prime). I can comprehend this argument.
- Voters were discussing vividly the order of said operators but no one could give a reason for the old sequence / × + − (bottom up). As mentioned, tradition is no reason. This reason is missing until today, although I asked more than once. As long as this holds, I prefer a sequence which is accepted worldwide and can be explained. And I'm confident even our seniors will love their 43S so that their 'muscle memory' will soon adapt to the 'new' sequence. By the way, doesn't said 'muscle memory' sit in the cerebellum while calculating is done in the cerebrum?
- use ASSIGN (printed ASN on the keyboard) to customize his 43S (see Section 6 of the Owner's Manual),
- design his own layout based on our work (like Jaco did and does),
- design his own calculator from scratch (which is fun but also some work - promised).
EDIT: To be safer, I should say "before THE BOOK materializes" instead.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
Re: 43S News
A good reason for retaining a long-used standard is exactly because of its familiarity, comfort and reliable operation from long years of use.Walter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:26 pmVoters were discussing vividly the order of said operators but no one could give a reason for the old sequence / × + − (bottom up). As mentioned, tradition is no reason. This reason is missing until today, although I asked more than once. As long as this holds, I prefer a sequence which is accepted worldwide and can be explained.
In the oft-used example of people being comfortable with the seemingly bizarre layout of a Qwerty keyboard, it is exactly because they've used it for a long time that they accept and like it, and not because of why it came to be this way (which we happen to know is this layout minimized mechanism conflicts/jamming). Users like Qwerty simply because it's familiar and predictable; most don't know and none care how that layout came to be as that no longer matters.
You could explain that a keyboard laid out in alphabetical order makes good sense, because after all, this is how they were taught letters in the A, B, C, D, etc. sequence, but no one would try to justify that simply because we all share knowing that order. The order we learned letters has nothing to do with how we type them on our keyboards while typing words. And to be sure, as you will no doubt point out. some people today use different letters, but let's limit to the discussion to the Roman alphabet.
--bob p
DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
Re: 43S News
Please consider that the last calculator featuring the old (inexplicable) sequence of operators was launched 37 years ago, IIRC. QWERTZ and QWERTY keyboards, however, are produced until today. (Bad luck - please return with a better offer. )
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041