43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 am

Looking at it again, I think I prefer SNAP.

About the user finding himself more often in user mode than he wanted: That's as harmless as can be; just call USER once again and you're back. And even inadvertantly calling SNAP is no trainclash. Be happy you don't have any other problems. I'm confident you'll learn it after some time.

After all, the fundamental challenge with USER and SNAP is you want these functionalities under any circumstances. This leaves very few locations on the keyboard. I mentioned elsewhere that such stuff is usually put to ON-key combinations. Hence the second challenge is that such combinations must be allowed on the platform you want to use, regardless of the position of [ON]. I'm open to any alternative smart idea where to put this stuff. Suggestions?
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:56 am

Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 am
Hence the second challenge is that such combinations must be allowed on the platform you want to use, regardless of the position of [ON]. I'm open to any alternative smart idea where to put this stuff. Suggestions?
This is probably way outside your box, but for your consideration anyway: Simultaneously pressing both shift keys (as in press one while holding the other, then release both in no particular order).

Edit: Added section below.

Always available.
No interference with other functionality or key assignments.
No accidental screenshots.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:18 pm

H2X wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:56 am
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 am
Hence the second challenge is that such combinations must be allowed on the platform you want to use, regardless of the position of [ON]. I'm open to any alternative smart idea where to put this stuff. Suggestions?
This is probably way outside your box, but for your consideration anyway: Simultaneously pressing both shift keys (as in press one while holding the other, then release both in no particular order).

Edit: Added section below.

Always available.
No interference with other functionality or key assignments.
No accidental screenshots.
Thanks for your idea! Three questions:
  1. Is this a legal way on this platform?
  2. For curiosity: Why do we have to make it complex (= press & hold) if we could make it simpler (= press & press)?
  3. If press & hold is required for any reason whatsoever, why couldn't we use [ON/EXIT] + [E]?
Just want to understand (a bit).
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:52 pm

Walter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:18 pm
H2X wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:56 am
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 am
Hence the second challenge is that such combinations must be allowed on the platform you want to use, regardless of the position of [ON]. I'm open to any alternative smart idea where to put this stuff. Suggestions?
This is probably way outside your box, but for your consideration anyway: Simultaneously pressing both shift keys (as in press one while holding the other, then release both in no particular order).

Edit: Added section below.

Always available.
No interference with other functionality or key assignments.
No accidental screenshots.
Thanks for your idea! Three questions:
  1. Is this a legal way on this platform?
  2. For curiosity: Why do we have to make it complex (= press & hold) if we could make it simpler (= press & press)?
  3. If press & hold is required for any reason whatsoever, why couldn't we use [ON/EXIT] + [E]?
Just want to understand (a bit).
Only Shift-E is supported directly by the platform. Any other key combo than this, will not work to snap system screens.

You could use ON-E and ON+ and ON- and some more ON combinations work for simultaneous pressing. It requires application key decoding which is supported by the system. On the other hand COS & TAN on the DM42 (or f & g) do not allow simultaneous manual decoding and cannot work at all. (Rider: I did not test it with the keymap activated but I cannot see how that can improve it).

The assumption that shift-shift is easier is not necessarily true. It requires special code to be added to make shift(s) and/or the E key work within the RBR and STATUS functions, which has no code to decode shifts.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:44 am

Walter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:18 pm
H2X wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:56 am
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 am
Hence the second challenge is that such combinations must be allowed on the platform you want to use, regardless of the position of [ON]. I'm open to any alternative smart idea where to put this stuff. Suggestions?
This is probably way outside your box, but for your consideration anyway: Simultaneously pressing both shift keys (as in press one while holding the other, then release both in no particular order).

Edit: Added section below.

Always available.
No interference with other functionality or key assignments.
No accidental screenshots.
Thanks for your idea! Three questions:
  1. Is this a legal way on this platform?
  2. For curiosity: Why do we have to make it complex (= press & hold) if we could make it simpler (= press & press)?
  3. If press & hold is required for any reason whatsoever, why couldn't we use [ON/EXIT] + [E]?
Just want to understand (a bit).
My suggestion addresses the accidential screenshots issue and meets the other requirements. Other press & hold combinations would work as well, of course, if they make (more) sense.

The DMCP should evolve to support what is needed by its client software. I also think that it wouldn't hurt if the DMCP finds a way to customize or extend certain (obscure) key combinations to match the client software, the keyboard, the docs & manuals, etc. for consistency.

BTW, let me say that I personally like g[SNAP] and foresee no screenshot accidents on my part using it. I'm not voting to change it.
Last edited by H2X on Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
DM42 #40 running WP43C | DM41X #50
The earth is flat. It just appears round because it is massive and curves spacetime.

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:55 am

Martin told me elsewhere:
The 1st key (Shift) can be assigned everywhere but not on ON nor on E
The 2nd key (E) can be assigned everywhere but not on ON nor on Shift
ON cannot be assigned on Shift nor on E
On the DM42: Shift is the yellow key and E is E
On the WP43S layout: Shift is g and E is E
Just for sake of completeness of information.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

fridlmue
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Re: 43S News

Post by fridlmue » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:02 pm

Referring to the Pilot Run thread: Is it planed to buy DM42 calculators by you and modify them with your own 43S keys and front plate or is the DM42 already "modified" to 43S by SwissMicros? Sorry if this question was already answered. I'd not find and do not follow this huge thread on a daily base.
HP-41cx, HP-35s, DM42

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:34 pm

fridlmue wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:02 pm
Referring to the Pilot Run thread: Is it planed to buy DM42 calculators by you and modify them with your own 43S keys and front plate or is the DM42 already "modified" to 43S by SwissMicros? Sorry if this question was already answered. I'd not find and do not follow this huge thread on a daily base.
Thanks for asking. We will order the 43S hardware at SwissMicros. So everything outside will look like a 43S (i.e. the keys and the plate in particular will carry prints deviating from the DM42). The firmware will be flashed thereafter.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

fridlmue
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Location: Germany - Saxony

Re: 43S News

Post by fridlmue » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:44 pm

Walter wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:34 pm
Thanks for asking. We will order the 43S hardware at SwissMicros. So everything outside will look like a 43S (i.e. the keys and the plate in particular will carry prints deviating from the DM42). The firmware will be flashed thereafter.
Thank you for clarify that. As I'm following this project very curious. As Student i will not "just for fun" be able to afford the "pilot batch" at the moment. But if it really comes down to one unit more or less to realize the project I would probably rethink this position to support this project.
HP-41cx, HP-35s, DM42

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:59 pm

fridlmue wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:44 pm
Thank you for clarify that. As I'm following this project very curious. As Student i will not "just for fun" be able to afford the "pilot batch" at the moment. But if it really comes down to one unit more or less to realize the project I would probably rethink this position to support this project.
Thank you for your will to support this project. Right now, however, it doesn't look like coming 'down to one unit more or less to realize the project'. We are grimly determined to order a pilot batch after all that long approach. And if Corona allows you can see some calculators in Allschwil in November.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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