WP43 Pilot Run (Poll!)

This area is for discussion about these families of custom high-end Scientific Calculator applications for SwissMicros devices.
redglyph
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by redglyph »

Walter wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:47 am
Although you might not believe it, also I have a family and friends and sometimes simply lack time to answer every user idea in depth immediately. I beg for your pardon, hoping you do better with your projects.
I don't believe I ever complained about delayed answers. It's just sad when someone takes the time to expose the pros and cons as conveniently as possible for the reader, just to realize the post is not read or only partially. It makes for poor communication and maybe you're not the only one with a busy schedule.

Good luck with your project.
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Walter
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Walter »

Come on, please, I wrote a short answer to you very soon.

As you might have read earlier in the 43S News, you may discuss and suggest there whatever you like regarding the 43S, but you have to convince me of the advantages of your suggestion(s). Frankly, you didn't succeed so far; though I didn't find your post you mentioned discussing menus. May be you can post a link to it, please?

Thanks in advance, and relax.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
packrat
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by packrat »

Did we ever get another thread for people to indicate purchase numbers for a production 43S or did this just collapse into the other features thread?
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Walter
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Walter »

packrat wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:55 am
Did we ever get another thread for people to indicate purchase numbers for a production 43S or did this just collapse into the other features thread?
Purchase numbers? For a production 43S??

AFAIK, we're talking about a pilot series here, aren't we? Thus, things are easier: please go to the top of this thread and start counting - H2X will get #1, akaTB #2, etc. of the calculators available after a) a pilot run will have been produced and b) the developers and manufacturers will have got their share. There will be a separate post announcing this procedure whenever the time has come. Should be clear so far, doesn't it?

Since I guess that the pilot series might be smaller than the demand indicated in ths thread here, the remaining interested members (as recorded above) will most probably get a production 43S assuming they want one still.

So you see nothing has collapsed nor will it do so without further notice. We just answer questions wherever they arise. Don't panic! 8-)
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
packrat
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by packrat »

Well hey, if all umptyteenhundred folks ahead of me drop out, I'd happy grab a pilot 43S. Failing that, I wish. you all smooth sailing with the pilot testing so I can get a production one.

B>
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rudi
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by rudi »

Im retracting my entry for the 43S - coming to the other side (43C) and will wait for poll on that.

Edit 27/9-22 06:00 (CET)
I also realy realy appreciate, respect and admire the work behind the 43S development!!!!!!
It's just about the keyboard layout, and as ben.titmus writes below, one may be better of buying a DM42 and load 43C into that. But I would prefeer a dedicated 43C to get all tha labels correct ;-)
I'll wait and cross my fingers, that it will eventually happen ;-)
Last edited by rudi on Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
/Rudi

DM-42 (s/n 06999), HP-42S, HP-35s, HP-11c, HP-32SII (ex HP-41CV, ex HP-75C, ex HP-48G + a lot, really lot of a accessories)
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ben.titmus
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by ben.titmus »

rudi wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:59 pm
Im retracting my entry for the 43S - coming to the other side (43C) and will wait for poll on that.
I'm biased (since I've done a little bit of work on the WP43S) but I'm not sure whether you'll get a poll for the 43C. Jaco (and others) have done great work on the 43C and there is a lot of collaboration between the two teams. The 43C takes the latest WP43S code regularly and Jaco and others have made significant contributions to WP43S.

There have already been discussions with SwissMicros about the WP43S and progress is being made. This is a new platform that is quite different from their current offerings. I can't speak for SwissMicros or the 43C project, but I'm not sure whether we will see a physical 43C for two reasons: (1) the 43C keyboard layout is deliberately based on the DM42, and so there is little difference in the keyboard - making an overlay for the DM42 would be quite a bit cheaper; (2) it would share significant overlap with the WP43S in their offering.

When the WP43S has its production run the 43C project may end up supporting that layout with their added features, or they may continue to target the DM42 (or both!). If enough people request 43C features for the WP43S then they may end up being implemented on the WP43S (as they have in the past). So I think the best decision to make is either to get a WP43S when it's produced or to get a DM42 (or another one) and use the 43C firmware. Of course, Jaco, SwissMicros, or others may well have plans for a 43C physical calculator that I'm not aware of, but I don't think we should expect it to happen unless we're told otherwise.

(None of this is in any way meant to mean that I don't appreciate the work the 43C project does - it's a great project that has also significantly benefited the WP43S, and I really don't mind if both end up being produced.)
dlachieze
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by dlachieze »

ben.titmus wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:39 pm
So I think the best decision to make is either to get a WP43S when it's produced or to get a DM42 (or another one) and use the 43C firmware. Of course, Jaco, SwissMicros, or others may well have plans for a 43C physical calculator that I'm not aware of, but I don't think we should expect it to happen unless we're told otherwise.
My understanding from the C43 website is that a dedicated bezel will be made available to order at some point for people wanting to install it on their DM42 flashed with the 43C firmware.
DM42: 00425 - DM41X: β00066 - WP43: 00042
ben.titmus
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by ben.titmus »

dlachieze wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:47 am
My understanding from the C43 website is that a dedicated bezel will be made available to order at some point for people wanting to install it on their DM42 flashed with the 43C firmware.
Thanks, I'd forgotten about the website. I should have said that a bezel is very likely, but a new model of calculator is unlikely (as far as I can see). Of course since none of the buttons change on the C43 a bezel should give you almost everything you need. The only exceptions are you won't get the shift indicators at the side of the display and the model of the calculator will still be DM42.

There are many differences between the C43 and the WP43S beyond just the keyboard layout which might influence your decision one way or the other.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Pilot Run (Poll!)

Post by Jaymos »

ben.titmus wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:15 pm
dlachieze wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:47 am
My understanding from the C43 website is that a dedicated bezel will be made...
...There are many differences between the C43 and the WP43S beyond just the keyboard layout which might influence your decision one way or the other.
Let me answer/comment the points of agreement/disagreement, one by one.

The project name changed to C43 about 2 years ago. The file names and logo changed at that time, but the original title of WP43C is still on the GitLab project and I don't really mind - history is what it is. The calculator now displays C43 as the PGM file loads on the DM42 (last release).

We are a small group of 5 enthusiasts currently working the C43. All of us comment on these forums from time to time.

ben.titmus and dlachieze got it right in a number of assumptions/statements in their previous 3 posts:
  • Yes, I take the latest WP43S code as it comes online. It all depends on how much changed - recently ben.titmus was very prolific and changed a lot at WP43S so we may take some time to catch up :roll:
  • Yes, as ben.titmus stated - indeed it is more than a swapped out keyboard. C43 is a different UI offering; it is the way we want to see a single shift calculator working - you may like it, you may not. Some things are a little different than WP43S (it is more 42S UI oriented, has font & lettering changes, single shift) and some things are in fact a lot different than WP43S (text entry, HP16C type work, angle treatments, fractions, complex entry and more).
  • Yes, I am also part of the dev team of WP43S and is responsible for some WP43S code. I firmly believe that we have a 43 platform when referring to the bulk code commonalities; even though 'platform' is not a coined term anywhere, officially.
  • Yes, keys: the white lettered keys are actual DM42 keys, the yellow labels are loosely based on the HP42S layout with exceptions and blue labels are placed, fit for purpose; the UI re-engineered with the different constraints of the DM42 hardware. But that is not all. The device offers a different user experience. Of course we borrow concepts from every calculator in our calculator collection storage boxes!
  • Yes, the benefit goes both ways: C43 benefits from the bulk common code and WP43S also benefits especially as changes infrequently expose hard to find bugs. That makes for more robust WP43S code. We do a lot of 43 testing in our group: I should claim some of Walter's tester points though!
  • Yes, we are indeed making a professional bezel for retrofitting onto DM42's. dlachieze has read correctly - it is stated on the (rather dated) web site. Unfortunately the manufacturing world got influenced by human issues during the Covid thing, so our production process halted completely, but we recently restarted and we are good ;)
  • Physical calculators are not excluded, but having said that, WP43S are probably a lot closer to a deal, if not at a deal. We do see the retrofit DM42 bezels as our pilot run.
  • No, from our point of view we do not intend to support the WP43S layout or run on future WP43S, specifically due to the original WP43S road block which is the placement of the arithmetic keys. The funny thing is, we exist because of GPL open source, so who knows, maybe someday someone might want to port it back to the origin :lol:
We all 5 are committed to a successful and useful WP43S and of course our target is C43; I test WP43S, I occasionally (try) influence the WP43S spec and I often add to the WP43S code. For details - visit the WP43S and/or WP43C (C43) project issue pages on Gitlab.
Jaco Mostert
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https://47calc.com C47 (s/n 03818 & 06199), WP43 (0015). In box: HP42S, HP32Sii, WP34S&C, HP28C, HP35s, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; ex: FX702P, 11C, HP67 & HP85; iOS: 42s Byron, Free42+, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
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