Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

General discussion about calculators, SwissMicros or otherwise
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dm319
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dm319 »

Walter wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:13 pm
Although a nice idea, I'm afraid that's going to become significantly more expensive than can be justified by its power. Too many $$/function as long as we talk about a realistic batch size.
Agreed. This is something for a little electronics project involving a macropad, something like a pi zero or arduino maybe? and a little LCD display.
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Thomas Okken
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Thomas Okken »

dm319 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 pm
I also really appreciate that you are a free software advocate, which doesn't seem to be in the mindshare of people in the small calculator community
Thanks! And you're right about the mindshare, I've gotten quite a bit of hate over insisting that the terms of the GPL be honored for the DM42 firmware. Not by everyone (I actually have no idea what percentage of SM and MoHPC forum users those people represent) but surprisingly many.
dm319 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:13 pm
Does Michael reimplement the firmware himself for all of the models other than the DM42?
I believe Michael is the hardware guy and it's David who is responsible for the software. The firmware for all the current SwissMicros models other than the DM42 consists of an emulation layer that emulates the original HP hardware, running modified HP ROM images, with various hacks to allow those ROMs to access more memory, support larger displays, etc.
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dm319
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dm319 »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:44 am
Thanks! And you're right about the mindshare, I've gotten quite a bit of hate over insisting that the terms of the GPL be honored for the DM42 firmware. Not by everyone (I actually have no idea what percentage of SM and MoHPC forum users those people represent) but surprisingly many.
That's a shame but of course you did the right thing. I still see the not-too-infrequent snarky remark even now. There was a very old thread where I came across this:
Given its importance this ... Software is not a free software
Which is something I see in the two fields I work in (both are technical, but not related to computing) - that the value of something is governed by the price tag attached to it rather than what you can do with it. At least for me I have stopped investing my efforts in anything non-FOSS for having been burned so many times with software that prematurely meets its end due to a company or person losing interest. And the software from that quote I don't think has ever seen the light of day and is likely to be as mortal as its owner unfortunately.

I suspect that many do not realise the deeper benefits of free42 being free, other than that money is not required! One of those benefits was the DM42 I guess!
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Thomas Okken
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Thomas Okken »

dm319 wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:11 am
I suspect that many do not realise the deeper benefits of free42 being free, other than that money is not required! One of those benefits was the DM42 I guess!
It appeared to me that many do not realize, or rather, do not care and don't want to hear, that the "free" part of the GPL does come with a condition. Anyone wanting to build a commercial product based on GPL-licensed software has a choice: use the software under the conditions required by the GPL, that is, publish the full source code of the derived product, and get the software for free; or, try to negotiate a closed-source license with the copyright holder, avoiding the restrictions of the GPL, while paying whatever licensing fee the copyright holder agrees to.

SwissMicros never even attempted to negotiate a closed-source licensing deal, and instead went and started selling a closed-source product, in clear violation of the terms of the GPL. They only reversed course after I created a stink about it, and never bothered with so much as an apology. The reality deniers on the SM and MoHPC forums were no better, sad to say.

It will never cease to amaze me that I was the one getting the hate mail while SM were the ones who were knowingly and openly perpetrating software piracy. But as long as their customers got their toys, they didn't care. (I'm only referring to the ones actually taking SM's side while this was going on, of course.)
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Walter
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Walter »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:29 am
It will never cease to amaze me that I was the one getting the hate mail while SM were the ones who were knowingly and openly perpetrating software piracy. But as long as their customers got their toys, they didn't care.
That's an old story known from sandboxes already: Anybody taking away a toy will be hated, be it his own or not. And people are never more convinced of their own opinion than if they've absolutely no idea of the facts but are 'well-meaning' or think they are on the right side. I won't mention the societies where you can observe this best nowadays.
WP43 SN00000, 34S, and 31S for obvious reasons; HP-35, 45, ..., 35S, 15CE, DM16L S/N# 00093, DM42β SN:00041
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dm319
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by dm319 »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:29 am
or, try to negotiate a closed-source license with the copyright holder, avoiding the restrictions of the GPL
I didn't actually realise that was an option. That whole story is far worse than I realised and really rubbish for you, Thomas. I'm glad it got mostly resolved in the end, but a shame it had to happen in that way. Also SO bizarre, given your immense contributions to this community, that people would not stop to think - 'Thomas is saying this is important, maybe it is?'

The idea and reason for free software hasn't permeated software circles fully, especially the commercial side of things. But the idea of it has even less reached regular public mindshare. And yet it has quietly become such an important force for society. Society is dependent on it, and have all benefitted from it, and yet we somehow mostly don't get it. It takes a handful of people here and there to believe in it and fight for it in the face of financial opportunity loss and public ignorance.

In general, I think people don't understand how public 'good' benefits everyone more than the sum of people using it. We have this issue with some public services in our country. Again, people can't shake the idea of free = worthless.

We can add it to the list of things that the public are ignorant of, but is important to functioning and progress in society, and I'm not sure I see this changing anytime soon. A few years ago one of our politicians said something mathematically impossible about encryption against the advice of her advisors, and no-one really noticed.
Walter wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:17 pm
And people are never more convinced of their own opinion than if they've absolutely no idea of the facts
So true! I may have to borrow this phrase.
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Guenter
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Re: Inspiring the next generation of RPN users

Post by Guenter »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:29 am
The reality deniers on the SM and MoHPC forums were no better, sad to say.
But there were a few that stepped in to support you on MHPC. And one moderator lost all his credibility, due to his bad performance. So there where white knights ;) successful also.

Günter
Günter
DM42 SN:00004 and SN:00184 -- DM41X SN:00013 and SN:00955
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