DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Discussion around the SwissMicros DM42 calculator
rprosperi
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by rprosperi »

This comes up about once a year, typically with relatively new users.

Thanks to the veterans for explaining... :)
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
Thomas Okken
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by Thomas Okken »

It's bad design IMO. I understand the rationale; using a layout like the 4th row of the MODES menu takes up more space, so you wouldn't be able to fit all the functionality of the DM42 time configuration menu in a single row. But a button that indicates what mode you would switch to, without indicating the current state, is bound to cause confusion, as is evidenced by
rprosperi wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:40 pm
This comes up about once a year, typically with relatively new users.
(Emphasis mine.) It's non-intuitive.
I've encountered this kind of design in other applications too, and it was a recurring source of annoyance there as well. When you go to a configuration menu or dialog, you don't always want to change the settings, but you almost always want to see what the settings are now, and this kind of design does not help with that at all.
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ijabbott
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by ijabbott »

rprosperi wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:40 pm
This comes up about once a year, typically with relatively new users.

Thanks to the veterans for explaining... :)
There is plenty of room on the display. Perhaps it should indicate the current mode?
rprosperi
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by rprosperi »

It's somewhat of a religious discussion...

Earlier versions had the current format shown in the display, but users were confused as to why this disagreed with the label on F1 (which of course, it must, in order for F1 to pick another format), so it was removed.

One answer about the confusion (which I agree can happen here) is to simply press F1 and watch it toggle the display; in 2-3 presses it all becomes more clear than any amount of guidance text will explain; though unsatisfying to purists, it's nevertheless true.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
Thomas Okken
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by Thomas Okken »

rprosperi wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:06 am
It's somewhat of a religious discussion...
Is it, though? How does the frequency of people being confused and asking questions about this compare with people asking similar questions about the other menus?

For reference, I've had zero questions asking me to clarify or change how the date and time options in the Free42 MODES menu work.
rprosperi
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by rprosperi »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:19 am
rprosperi wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:06 am
It's somewhat of a religious discussion...
Is it, though? How does the frequency of people being confused and asking questions about this compare with people asking similar questions about the other menus?
Coming up 3-4 times in as many years, for all users of both the DM42 and DM41X, and being quickly resolved by answers from SM or the community tells me it's not really a problem; it seems most users either figure it out quickly on their own, or find out soon enough. It has not been a problem, IMHO.
For reference, I've had zero questions asking me to clarify or change how the date and time options in the Free42 MODES menu work.
There are fewer controls needed in that menu, so it's simpler to include all 3 format choices with active status indicated; there is no need to adjust the actual time since Free42 gets it from the host. In DM4x settings screens, the designs have been constrained to have all controls limited to the single set of F1-F6 soft buttons (or other keys, depending on the screen) rather than having multiple tiers of menus, to keep them simple. An occasional moment of confusion, by a handful of users, for a setting a user employs typically less than once a year isn't perfect, but it is acceptable.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282, DM41X: β00071 & 00656, DM10L: 071/100
minimuck
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Re: DMY Indicator misplaced in Settings -> Date DMCP 3.24

Post by minimuck »

Hi guys, of course it's not a problem, but all my other user interfaces (as Thomas has pointed it out already) allow it to immediately recognise what the current input format is. I was intuitively following that design idiom as it is so natural and I didn't spend a split second of thought that the button label indicates what the next format is. As soon as you told me it fell on my head and now I am a little embarrassed to ask such a silly question :oops:
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