Free42 Version 3

Discussion around the Swiss Micros DM42 calculator.
invariant
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by invariant »

(edit: See Thomas' reply below, this is wrong. Free42 is type beta and uses "Entry RPN" in NSTK mode)

Regarding "automatic stack lifting", I find that term a little bit confusing. I like the nomenclature introduced in https://hansklav.home.xs4all.nl/rpn/index.html#G.

In that nomenclature, "Classical RPN" (what was referred to as "automatic stack lifting" earlier in this thread) is clearly separated from the ability to have very large stacks (and no top copy on pop).

Free42 is type alpha (Classical RPN and 4 levels stack) by default and can optionally be type delta (classical RPN and ~unlimited stack).

I am personally not as against "Entry RPN" as others are (as long as it's just an option). I found it useful to reduce initial confusion when introducing others to RPN.
Last edited by invariant on Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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48GX
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by 48GX »

I’m so use to the 42, I almost prefer the RPN entry method. At first it made no sense, it now makes perfect sense. I just want to see at four stack lines like the DM42.

The HP48 stays in the drawer more every week. I didn’t even touch it this past week. With no replacement in sight, I’m moving to the 42 full force.
HP48GX since 1994
DM42 (2), HP42s, HP35s
Thomas Okken
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by Thomas Okken »

invariant wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm
Free42 is type alpha (Classical RPN and 4 levels stack) by default and can optionally be type delta (classical RPN and ~unlimited stack).
I'm not sure introducing new terminology just for describing this is going to reduce confusion very much. Free42 in NSTK mode looks more like "type beta" to me, basically the same as RPL, the only difference being that there is no separate command line, and numbers appear directly in level 1. That distinction doesn't affect usage much, though, except for what happens when you press EXIT during number entry.
invariant
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by invariant »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:21 am
invariant wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm
Free42 is type alpha (Classical RPN and 4 levels stack) by default and can optionally be type delta (classical RPN and ~unlimited stack).
I'm not sure introducing new terminology just for describing this is going to reduce confusion very much. Free42 in NSTK mode looks more like "type beta" to me, basically the same as RPL, the only difference being that there is no separate command line, and numbers appear directly in level 1. That distinction doesn't affect usage much, though, except for what happens when you press EXIT during number entry.
You are right, of course. I got myself thoroughly confused (I didn't have my Free42 setup nearby when I wrote this) and I had forgotten the full behavior of Free42 in NSTK mode.

Then I don't know what "automatic stack lifting" was referring to, if not relating to enabling/disabling Entry RPN. That's ok, I'll just leave it at this and move on.
Thomas Okken
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by Thomas Okken »

invariant wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:36 am
Then I don't know what "automatic stack lifting" was referring to, if not relating to enabling/disabling Entry RPN. That's ok, I'll just leave it at this and move on.
In case you're referring to this...
Walter wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:37 pm
We continue offering such a stack with the WP43S, keeping the benefits of RPN (automatic stack lift, top stack level repetition).
...it implies that automatic stack lift is something that distinguishes some calculators from others. And that makes no sense, because as far as I'm aware, no stack-based calculators without automatic stack lift exist. It's like advertising a car and stressing the benefits of it having round wheels.
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Walter
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by Walter »

In this case invariant is closer to the truth. Please see the HP35 Operating Manual of 1973, p. 3:
ASL.png
ASL.png (167.39 KiB) Viewed 390 times
This 'automatic [ENTER]' was called 'automatic stack lift' later on.

EDIT: It appears once more on pp. 34f of said manual.
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toml_12953
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by toml_12953 »

Thomas Okken wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:47 am

...it implies that automatic stack lift is something that distinguishes some calculators from others. And that makes no sense, because as far as I'm aware, no stack-based calculators without automatic stack lift exist. It's like advertising a car and stressing the benefits of it having round wheels.
Not anymore but they used to exist from MITS and other companies in the mid-70's. In order to do 3 × 5 + 2 you had to do this:

3
Enter
5
×
Enter
2
+
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invariant
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Re: Free42 Version 3

Post by invariant »

Ok, I get it now, thanks all. I had not realized this could NOT be a feature on a RPN calculator, as it seems painful.

I am glad that Free42 (in all its modes), WP43s and C43 all have automatic stack lift, always. These projects are all in good hands.
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