Landscape DM42?

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rprosperi
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by rprosperi » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:53 am

Sounds like SST....
--bob p

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Walter
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by Walter » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:39 am

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:36 am
Ummm, maybe you might want to kindly take a look at that picture in my post, which, in your rush to point out the dumbest possible interpretation of what I wrote, you apparently didn't have time to inspect...
Yeah, but what, oh great master, shall SST^ and SST-> do?? Noone explained so far. There must be great benefits rewarding the dedication of a primary function, I assume. Oh master, please enlighten us mere mortals.

(The minus second key is wasted for R^ and a shifted CLST - while CLST is in CLEAR already and R^is simply 3x Rv. I'd prefer an unshifted COMPLEX and a %CH somewhere on the keyboard, e.g. instead of %. But this opens the field of keyboard layout discussions, so I won't do that.)
Last edited by Walter on Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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grsbanks
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by grsbanks » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:59 am

Now now.

Let's all take a chill pill. There's no need for sarcasm.
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rprosperi
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by rprosperi » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:04 pm

Walter wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:39 am

Yeah, but what, ... shall SST^ and SST-> do?? Noone explained so far. There must be great benefits rewarding the dedication of a primary function, I assume. Oh master, please enlighten us mere mortals.
I agree Walter, no need to be nasty. It was possible (easy?) to read your note to mean it was implied he didn't know the count; sure, that's not what you meant, I knew that, but it it could have been taken that way, and if meant so, would be insulting...

Anyway...

These have been discussed a lot lately (though mostly at MoHPC) as new features (the 2nd is new, the first had a minor name change to clarify the difference) for Free42, and they are Step-Into and Step-Over respectively. Step into is the classic SST that will traverse down into a subroutine, Step-Over will execute the full subroutine and then stop on the next statement after (thus presuming you don't want to explore/debug within the subroutine)
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Walter
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by Walter » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:31 pm

rprosperi wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:04 pm
These have been discussed a lot lately (though mostly at MoHPC) as new features (the 2nd is new, the first had a minor name change to clarify the difference) for Free42, and they are Step-Into and Step-Over respectively. Step into is the classic SST that will traverse down into a subroutine, Step-Over will execute the full subroutine and then stop on the next statement after (thus presuming you don't want to explore/debug within the subroutine)
Thanks, Bob, for a reasonable explanation. There is, however, also SST without any arrow on said keyboard layout. :? So we can see three SST's there, can't we? :? :?

(BTW, if a specific topic is discussed elsewhere comprehensively, a link to that location should be easy to place, shouldn't it? By the author of the OP, of course. Not everyone reads everything everywhere always. Just my 20 m€.)
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rprosperi
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by rprosperi » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:01 am

Walter wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:31 pm
Thanks, Bob, for a reasonable explanation. There is, however, also SST without any arrow on said keyboard layout. :? So we can see three SST's there, can't we? :? :?

(BTW, if a specific topic is discussed elsewhere comprehensively, a link to that location should be easy to place, shouldn't it? By the author of the OP, of course. Not everyone reads everything everywhere always. Just my 20 m€.)
The original discussion is here: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-1 ... #pid114162

The 3 SST variations seen in Thomas' screen shot probably correlate with the types discussed in the thread, but I'm not sure which is which as the exact labels differ. No matter though as the point is the same, that extra keys in a layout could be well utilized to provide easy access to some of the SST commands. IMHO, debugging is not done often enough (compared to actual use) to justify such high priority real estate as a primary key, though when you are debugging they sure are handy and at that moment in time, seem well-justified (which has led in the past to discussions of adding a temporary debug mode which would promote some keys to act as SST, etc. while in that mode, but that is a different topic).

hth
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keithdalby
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by keithdalby » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:41 am

The two extra keys could be used to navigate the menus, scrolling left and right with ENTER for an selection or something. That way the issue of the keys below the screen not ligning up goes away

Thomas Okken
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by Thomas Okken » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:44 am

rprosperi wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:01 am
IMHO, debugging is not done often enough (compared to actual use) to justify such high priority real estate as a primary key, though when you are debugging they sure are handy and at that moment in time, seem well-justified
Ay, there's the rub! When you are debugging, you tend to use SST a lot, and having it be shifted becomes very annoying, which is why I felt it would be a good idea to dedicate a key to it (and to SST→ in particular). Personally, I use it a lot more than, say, Σ+.

The new "direct command mapping" feature in Free42 2.2 could be adapted to implement an HP-41-like USER mode; add overlays to the equation and the whole debate becomes moot. :)

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Walter
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by Walter » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:55 am

rprosperi wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:01 am
The original discussion is here: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-1 ... #pid114162

The 3 SST variations seen in Thomas' screen shot probably correlate with the types discussed in the thread, but I'm not sure which is which as the exact labels differ. No matter though as the point is the same, that extra keys in a layout could be well utilized to provide easy access to some of the SST commands. IMHO, debugging is not done often enough (compared to actual use) to justify such high priority real estate as a primary key, though when you are debugging they sure are handy and at that moment in time, seem well-justified (which has led in the past to discussions of adding a temporary debug mode which would promote some keys to act as SST, etc. while in that mode, but that is a different topic).

hth
Thanks again, Bob, that helped. To spare other readers a search through the internet, I publish here where I finally found what I was looking for: https://thomasokken.com/free42/history.html and searching for SST. It reads:
2019-03-26: release 2.1
  • New functions: SST↑ (Step Out) and SST→ (Step Over).
    Step Out runs the program until the end of the current subroutine;
    Step Over executes one step, but if that step is an XEQ, SOLVE, or INTEG, it runs until the subroutine returns, or SOLVE or INTEG are done.
    When Step Out is performed in a function called by SOLVE or INTEG, the program runs until SOLVE or INTEG are done.
  • Added SST↓ (Step Into), which is just an alias for ((traditional)) SST. This allows creating a row in the CUSTOM menu with SST↓, SST→, and SST↑, like in typical high-level language debuggers.
(Additional structure and insert in double parentheses by me. Although why couldn't the OP publish that link? Or explain his labels himself? Riddles over riddles... Oh, the world is imperfect.)
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mezoganet
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Re: Landscape DM42?

Post by mezoganet » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:44 am

Hem...

I would not buy an DM42 landscape... the DM41 puzzles me as a landscape overlay, quite not usable...

Where are the operator keys (+-*/) in the middle of nowhere ?

Don’t touch the overlay, please.

Hp41 was the best, do not change anything.
HP33E, HP34C, HP41C, HP16C, HP28S, HP42S, HP48S, HP12C, HP35S, DM42 and HP3000 @ work during 18 yrs as IT Mgr

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