43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:48 pm

Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Why don't you want to argue with me? I'm a definite friend of constructive discussions. 8-)
In my book, those are not the same thing. BTW, so am I. :-)
Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Just don't you tell me what you don't like but tell me how to make it better. :)
I think it has been mentioned enough already, but I find what the 43C project is doing with radio buttons and checkboxes interesting and worth playing out. They are currently at radio buttons -- I would personally like to see if some form of drop-down menu surrogate might work, but that's me - I am currently enjoying the role of the bystander with all the opinions. Checkboxes work well for boolean values, for more than two values I like to be presented with all the options in a clear and explicit way. Both the 43S and 43C approaches should work out perfectly fine.

Note that I am having this discussion in the 43C thread.
Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:07 pm
BTW, we already deviate from the HP-42S paradigm by not using its system flags.
I know. I think that the DM42 might do well with an improved flag browser - as an option. Just my opinion.
DM42 SN:00040 | Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible - Frank Zappa

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Walter
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Walter » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:16 pm

H2X wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:48 pm
Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:07 pm
Why don't you want to argue with me? I'm a definite friend of constructive discussions. 8-)
In my book, those are not the same thing. BTW, so am I. :-)
Sorry, I don't understand - especially the second sentence. :?
H2X wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:48 pm
Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:07 pm
BTW, we already deviate from the HP-42S paradigm by not using its system flags.
I know. I think that the DM42 might do well with an improved flag browser - as an option. Just my opinion.
Did you see the description of STATUS in the OM?
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:20 pm

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:15 pm
"All the major companies are doing it" is not much of a proof of effectiveness. It can also be a sign of a fad or groupthink.
"Microsoft is doing it" is particularly weak. Microsoft has such an entrenched monopoly position that they can get away with pretty much anything. Read up on "stack ranking" as an example of a management miscarriage that would sink most other companies.

And who gets an update from Microsoft every six months? I know they use a numbering scheme that is meant to suggest a six-month cadence, but I didn't get 1903 until September, and even then, I wished they'd sat on it longer. Every Windows 10 update since its initial rollout has caused serious problems, the kind of problems you'd expect with a major release and not an update, to the point where their whole new release system is nothing but a joke at this point.
I may have gotten this all wrong, but when was Microsoft last trying to give their customers what they want? :D
DM42 SN:00040 | Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible - Frank Zappa

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:45 pm

Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:27 pm
... youngsters ...
To say it with Sascha Grammel: "Ich find's lustig". :lol:
DM42 SN:00032

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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:47 pm

H2X wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:48 pm
... I would personally like to see if some form of drop-down menu surrogate might work, but that's me ...
That reminds me, I had made input masks on the VT220, operable with TAB. Maybe I can still find the 5 1/4" floppy disks.
At ComboBox, I think you should use a pointing device (mouse as an example). But we don't have a pointing device or a touch screen as a replacement. Apart from that, you simply don't have any control keys on the calculator. ListBox might be something you could implement if you find the use case for it.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Thomas Okken » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:04 am

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:36 pm
"Can contain irony"
Hehe, sorry, I didn't realize you were being tongue-in-cheek. My own bitter experience with Agile in the workplace has destroyed my sense of humor on that topic, I guess. I'll try to fix that. :oops:
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:36 pm
But since my bait worked and I have you right here, with your experience with the HP-42S and other HP calculators, do you have reservations about r...? ;)
Oh boy, I'm walking into something again now, aren't I, but here goes: what's r?

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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Thomas Okken » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:25 am

Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:27 pm
Wait for two more years and "agile" will be totally out since even the last employee will have recognized its general application is BS™.
From your lips to god's ears, Walter!
Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:27 pm
And if they live in the USA, they will always INVENT an INNOVATIVE GROUNDBRAKING NEW PARADIGM changing the world.
America is a hotbed of innovation. Not only of the good kind, unfortunately. :lol:

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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:15 am

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:04 am
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:36 pm
"Can contain irony"
Hehe, sorry, I didn't realize you were being tongue-in-cheek. My own bitter experience with Agile in the workplace has destroyed my sense of humor on that topic, I guess. I'll try to fix that. :oops:
I also find it confusing how already machine builders think they can save their company by hiring a ScrumMaster who doesn't know anything about their processes, just because the head behind the whole software is burnt out and only wants to take care of requirement engineering. Then we can only wish them good luck.

Thomas Okken wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:04 am
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:36 pm
But since my bait worked and I have you right here, with your experience with the HP-42S and other HP calculators, do you have reservations about r...? ;)
Oh boy, I'm walking into something again now, aren't I, but here goes: what's r?
"I think it's been mentioned enough already." The last few pages are about radio button and checkbox.
The WP43C has now introduced them. The HP-42S has them. They don't exist in the WP43S. Here in the WP43C thread at least one future WP43S user has reported that he would like this tiny little addition to the WP43S user interface. But I don't really care if they become introduced in WP43S or not. This discussion should be led in the future in the thread of Walter.
I would like your opinion as to whether the radio button is useful on a device with a screen like the DM42 or whether there are any reservations about this concept. You have enough experience with it.
DM42 SN:00032

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:22 am

Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:16 pm
H2X wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:48 pm
Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:07 pm
BTW, we already deviate from the HP-42S paradigm by not using its system flags.
I know. I think that the DM42 might do well with an improved flag browser - as an option. Just my opinion.
Did you see the description of STATUS in the OM?
I was referring to the DM42, but did I see the WP43S OM, [g][FLAGS][STATUS] on pp. 253-254 in Owner_wp_43s_0_13s?

Yes, very nice. I would also like a longer list format with a short name or description of each flag to help my lazy memory. I'd like to be able to set / clear flags directly from those screens.
Last edited by H2X on Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Over_score » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:39 am

Walter wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:27 pm
And never forget trainers have to earn money, too, so they have to "invent" something "new" every once and a while. And if they live in the USA, they will always INVENT an INNOVATIVE GROUNDBRAKING NEW PARADIGM changing the world. Simply don't believe it.
1 +
My professional life is full of experiences like that!
DM42 (SN 00284 & 03835), DM15L, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime

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