43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:50 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:32 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:15 pm
The virtual user mode with 'CC' assigned to 'Σ+' does not have this test assignment in the DM image.
It is not intended. This is a bug. I will look. Thanx.
It is not a bug. On the emulator you delete the backup.bin file.
On the calculator you have to do a RESET. Do f[CLEAR] g[FN6] Y.

I did not realise it was needed. Then all works again.

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:12 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:15 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:37 am
... But it sounds like you are ok with dropping %.
In layout 2 you should probably keep '%' on f[RCL] for now.
I looked in FIN menu and only % was there and not D%. For good measure I added D% to the menu.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:50 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:50 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:32 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:15 pm
The virtual user mode with 'CC' assigned to 'Σ+' does not have this test assignment in the DM image.
It is not intended. This is a bug. I will look. Thanx.
It is not a bug. On the emulator you delete the backup.bin file.
On the calculator you have to do a RESET. Do f[CLEAR] g[FN6] Y.

I did not realise it was needed. Then all works again.

J
All works again.

Now I can try the different functions. COMPLEX seems to behave as expected. For CC I'm still considering whether there would be a key sequence that doesn't require an explicit key assignment. Similar to RCL [DOT] on the DM42 to get the stack regulators for selection. I don't understand CC1 at the moment, but I will read the articles again.

d
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:50 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:50 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:32 pm



It is not intended. This is a bug. I will look. Thanx.
It is not a bug. On the emulator you delete the backup.bin file.
On the calculator you have to do a RESET. Do f[CLEAR] g[FN6] Y.

I did not realise it was needed. Then all works again.

J
All works again.

Now I can try the different functions. COMPLEX seems to behave as expected. For CC I'm still considering whether there would be a key sequence that doesn't require an explicit key assignment. Similar to RCL [DOT] on the DM42 to get the stack regulators for selection. I don't understand CC1 at the moment, but I will read the articles again.

d
CC1 does the same as CC, excluding the HP42S COMPLEX functionality. So do 7 CC1 and you’ll see.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:53 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:00 pm
...

CC1 does the same as CC, excluding the HP42S COMPLEX functionality. So do 7 CC1 and you’ll see.
I think it's good the way it is now. People who prefer to work with 'CC' can set this function to f[ENTER] in user mode. For example, I could set 'CC' to g[ENTER] because I probably won't use 'DROP'.

'CC1' would make sense if we find a key sequence that triggers this function. '[.]' is already occupied, 'space' is not available here on the RPN calculator. At the moment I can't think of a key sequence that could be used.

Do I see it right, that 'COMPLEX' and 'CC' could also be included in the menu 'PARTS' as softkeys?
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:44 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:53 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:00 pm
...

CC1 does the same as CC, excluding the HP42S COMPLEX functionality. So do 7 CC1 and you’ll see.
I think it's good the way it is now. People who prefer to work with 'CC' can set this function to f[ENTER] in user mode. For example, I could set 'CC' to g[ENTER] because I probably won't use 'DROP'.

'CC1' would make sense if we find a key sequence that triggers this function. '[.]' is already occupied, 'space' is not available here on the RPN calculator. At the moment I can't think of a key sequence that could be used.

Do I see it right, that 'COMPLEX' and 'CC' could also be included in the menu 'PARTS' as softkeys?
Because KEY_CC is an exception in the code, it cannot at the moment be allocated to any key. I must hardcode it to a specific key. I need to change too many things assign it to any key. The fact is 43S must first complete CC in ASN to any key. At the moment I have to hardcode to the E+ E- keys and if the key change to ENTER, I will re-code. Not ideal. So it must stay like that until 43S makes ASN to work with KEY_CC.

You are right, it can go to menus. I hacked a little code to put these three COMPLEX, CC and CC1 on a softmenu, and I put it into screen 2 of the CPX menu to be on primary keys. Yes, there are also merits to put it into PARTS, but I am sure PARTS will change soon by 43S because it really is not in good order. So I wait before I add anything. Until then I'm keeping it in CPX, because I already change CPX a lot.

So, end of evening, I pushed up the code to import5. The changes are:
  • CPX softmenu include COMPLEX, CC, CC1.
  • I moved the special routines in jm.c to reduce my rubbish in the 43s files.
  • Temporary >DP in g[RCL] in place of D%.
  • USER keys are now: [E+]:CC, [f][E+]:CC1, [f][RCL]:D%.
  • In FIN menu add D% which was nor there
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:22 pm
3. I am also dabbling with the idea to have g[RCL] to toggle the default number input type to either DP, SP, or AUTO. (Auto is as it is now, input is type LONGINT unless a decimal is typed).
An automatic number input type changer would of course be a top functionality.
If an INTEGER value is in the 'X', no matter if in DP or SP, it will be changed to LONGINT. If a LONGINT is in the 'X', it is switched to DP. If a REAL value is in the 'X', it becomes DP if it is SP, or it becomes SP if it is DP. Yes, I would like the function.

Regarding the 'Δ%' I am sure that somebody will come back sometime who wants to have this function on g[RCL]...

Absolutely super in the emulator is the fact that you see the new key assignment immediately when you activate the USER mode. Interactive overlay so to speak.

I think, 'CC1' doesn't need to be permanently assigned anywhere.

I liked the STAT menu better before. I don't know why. CLΣ, Σ- and Σ+ on F1 made sense for me, hopefully you won't want to use Σ- so often. Then it doesn't matter if the function is set to (f). But I'm not the specialist for the soft menus anyway.
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:25 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:22 pm
3. I am also dabbling with the idea to have g[RCL] to toggle the default number input type to either DP, SP, or AUTO. (Auto is as it is now, input is type LONGINT unless a decimal is typed).
An automatic number input type changer would of course be a top functionality.
If an INTEGER value is in the 'X', no matter if in DP or SP, it will be changed to LONGINT. If a LONGINT is in the 'X', it is switched to DP. If a REAL value is in the 'X', it becomes DP if it is SP, or it becomes SP if it is DP. Yes, I would like the function.
I really like the idea, I implemented the "Data Type Change" function [>>]. It works like this:

Command >> Change type UP
if Angle mode: change to SP or DP as applicable using .d.
If SHORTINT: change to SP
if SP: change to DP
if DP: change to LONGINT
if ComplexSP change to ComplexDP

Command << Change type DOWN
if Angle mode: change to SP or DP, as applicable using .d
If LONGINT: change to DP
if DP: change to SP
if SP: change to ShortInt
if ComplexDP change to ComplexSP
Clipboard03.png
Clipboard03.png (3.18 KiB) Viewed 698 times
The >> and << commands located in the [HOME] [Up] soften,
and also on USER keys f[E+] and g[E+]
Dani R. wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
Regarding the 'Δ%' I am sure that somebody will come back sometime who wants to have this function on g[RCL]...
I find these percentages in USEER mode very confusing when in user mode, this function jumps around. I will never remember on the real keyboard without the emulator context labels! Replaced % Δ% as per our original layouts.
Dani R. wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
I think, 'CC1' doesn't need to be permanently assigned anywhere.
I agree. I will not use CC1 and removed it from f[E+]. I do like the CC on top left primary key E+.
Dani R. wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
I liked the STAT menu better before. I don't know why. CLΣ, Σ- and Σ+ on F1 made sense for me, hopefully you won't want to use Σ- so often. Then it doesn't matter if the function is set to (f). But I'm not the specialist for the soft menus anyway.
I'll let this one simmer for a while.

I want more comments on how you want the E+ E- STAT menu rearrangement please.

Here are the latest and original.
Clipboard02.png
Clipboard02.png (3.09 KiB) Viewed 698 times
Clipboard01.png
Clipboard01.png (2.94 KiB) Viewed 698 times
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:10 am

For me, "Data Type Change" is a useful and good supplement. I think I would get along with this function. I had originally thought that in USER mode I would put '->SP' on g[SIN] and '->DP' on g[COS], but I like the assignment of '>>' and '<<' on f[Σ+] and g[Σ+].

(I mean, this is a nice demonstration of USER mode. I'm really grateful that the concept from the HP-41C has been revived. Sure, you can't assign the key assignment yourself at the moment, if you don't compile the WP43S/C yourself.)

Concerning "Data Type Change" I could imagine that at the transition from DP to LONGINT the dialog "Are you shure?" appears if you lose decimal places. (And if we check the decimal places, do we then work with the rounded intermediate result in the display?) In general, I ask here the question whether we are the only two nerds who think these new functions are good. I would consider some more involvement from other potential WP43C users to be valuable.

I have already commented on COMPLEX and CC. I think it's good how it's implemented now. (Yes, it was other nerds who were involved in the solution.)



Regarding the STAT menu I don't see any compelling reason to change it yet. I think all functions are there. I'm not a mathematician myself and therefore can't judge this conclusively. But I think that Walter had something in mind when he built this menu.
DM42 SN:00032

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:51 pm

New old topic to discuss: Primary occupancy (), shifted occupancy (f) and double Shifted occupancy (g) is controlled by the shift key. If no key is pressed within 4 seconds after the last pressing of the shift key, the shift function is cancelled again.

The shift key is used for the menus (function keys F1..F6) as well as for the other keys. At the same time.

Difficulty, which I see now, I saw with the following use case. You have opened a menu, for example CNST. F6 returns 'c'. For whatever reason you press the shift key. Accidentally. You press the shift key twice again within 4 seconds. The menu disappears and HOME is toggled. Or you press the shift key. To find you way around the menu you need more than four seconds to press the right function key. You get the unshifted function delivered. You don't have the same problems with the WP43S in the same degree. But now it is clear to me why I already mentioned that you should not use the shift key in the menu as a pointer.

But at the moment I don't have the solution how to improve the ergonomics. I'm too lazy now to look for what I propagated. But I think you should generally scroll through the menus with the up/down buttons, just with an overflow. In contrast to the HP-42s you see several lines at once.

Like I said, new old topic to discuss.
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