43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am

I'll get back to answering both H2X and Dani R, a bit later. Simmer a bit first ;-)

I wanted to clarify the DRG first, so you both don't simmer on the wrong premise:

I changed Walter's small angle icon to DRG. This DRG brings up a soft menu to convert degrees to rad to whatever. All combinations supported in the menu. I mention it, so you do not confuse it with the DEG RAD and GRAD switches to set the current mode which are in the MODE menu.

For further simmering, I spent the morning adjusting the following:

Edited EXP menu
Swapped functions in menu to align function keys with new DM42 math functions in the 2nd row.

Edited CPX menu
Re-arranged to have [RE] [Im] [|x|] [Lx] [conj] [Re<>Im] on primary function keys

Added a HOME menu which comes if you press shift a third time. (Once shift is [f], twice is [g], three times clears and pops up the HOME menu). Works pretty neat.
Soft menu with [EXP] [CPX] [FIN] [TRI] [DRG] [CAT] on the function keys.
EXIT goes back to the previous menu in case you accidentally cycled the shifts.

Added new [eRPN] & [RPN] switches in MODE menu. The switch is not implemented as yet. I reckoned to put in the switch as my calculators are always in eRPN modes (WP34C emulators and hardware, and this emulator) but not all enjoy my need for eRPN.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Location: Norway

Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by H2X » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
I wanted to clarify the DRG first, so you both don't simmer on the wrong premise:

I changed Walter's small angle icon to DRG. This DRG brings up a soft menu to convert degrees to rad to whatever. All combinations supported in the menu. I mention it, so you do not confuse it with the DEG RAD and GRAD switches to set the current mode which are in the MODE menu.
Thanks, I needed that! :-) That makes DRG a good partner to CONV. Colours might be swapped, if one wanted to stay closer to the HP42S / DM42.
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
Edited EXP menu
Swapped functions in menu to align function keys with new DM42 math functions in the 2nd row.
Good!
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
Edited CPX menu
Re-arranged to have [RE] [Im] [|x|] [Lx] [conj] [Re<>Im] on primary function keys
Good, I think.
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
Added a HOME menu which comes if you press shift a third time. (Once shift is [f], twice is [g], three times clears and pops up the HOME menu). Works pretty neat.
The HOME menu is an invention of yours, right? I like the idea of the soft keys always being useful.

Good idea with a shortcut to it. Whether this is the right place needs some simmering, but off the bat - clearing seems more logical to me as the last step of the cycle.
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
Soft menu with [EXP] [CPX] [FIN] [TRI] [DRG] [CAT] on the function keys.
EXIT goes back to the previous menu in case you accidentally cycled the shifts.
This is the HOME menu, right?

I am wondering if this changes the game a bit, regarding what is also shifted options of other keys. Does this mean that some of the other keys could be reconsidered?

Perhaps freeing up a key for the shortcut to the HOME menu, instead of extending the shift key cycle?

Bonus question: Should the HOME menu have shifted options (why not)?
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am

Added new [eRPN] & [RPN] switches in MODE menu.
This is where it belongs, I should think - unless there will be a SETUP menu as on the DM42 which proves even better.
DM42 SN:00040 | Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible - Frank Zappa

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:34 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:00 am
Put function STATUS on same key as menu FLAGS. Function x! can be removed again. I hope, x! is in the menu PROB. Rename RBR back to REGS. RBR, STATUS and TIMER all on the same line, because they are not programmable. Well, this also applies to ALPHA, SHIFT, USER, PRGM and EXIT. Ok it looks it is not a good idea to put STATUS on a KEY.
I assume you mean STAT when you write STATUS. STAT is for statistics and belongs with SUMS on the same key. STAT is for entering Sigma+ etc, and associated is SUMS for the various stats results.

I agree x! can easily go to a menu, but I want it on a key - one of those whims. For historical reasons I believe a calculator should have x! even when it is true that I've NEVER actually used it professionally. It can move though, if we find a slot for it.

I like the change of RBR too REGS. I think it is firstly viewing REGISTERS, and the method of showing it, is a BROWSER, so I agree. Changed.

I like grouping some of the lower keys into non-programmable. It is very difficult though with the constraints of the menus (EQN FIN etc) remains blue, and a number fixed due to 42S. Also, some are in clear pairs, so it is difficult to split. Here are the one I think could move if you can see how and where.

RBR (REGS), SAVE, ADv, x!, EQN, FIN,
Alpha, Alpha.FN (pair)
Timer, CLK (pair)
BITS, INTS (a pair but not critical to remain a pair)
LOOP, TEST (a pair but not critical to remain a pair, but both very much programming)
PARTS, INFO
I like the position of ASN, USER, EXIT and PRGM, even CAT.
All of these positions are fixed by 42S
The menus CNST, CONV and PROB on the same line.
CONV and PROB are fixed by 42S. CNST can be debated.
The EXP menu on the COS button. The CPX menu near the ENTER button, i.e. on 7 or 8.
I like this. I think EXP and CPX can swap. Done.
The menu PARTS can go to 8 or 7. Or near to the menu PROB.
PARTS contains infrequently used programming type functions like IP and FP, therefore I think it is better on the bottom, right by PRGM.

Like the TEST menu, the FLAGS menu is mainly used for programming.
FLAGS position is fixed by 42S.
What stands DRG for?
It is the convert to and from degrees radian and grads. I made a mistake with DRG, and added the arrow DRG->. Done.

I made two changes mentioned above already. Will send next image soon. It is easier to make them and if it doesn't work, comment, I can change again. It is easier to see the nett effect graphically.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:39 pm

H2X wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:11 am
I am going to let it simmer some more, but the questions I ask myself are about the HP42S / DM42 labels that have been moved to blue labels (g) instead of yellow (f), and if any of the labels in the bottom right 4x4 might be moved around.
Can consider, see constraints above.
Ideas welcome.

Also, x! on the multiplication key is a brilliant idea, but weakened by the absence of equally brilliant options on the other arithmetic operation keys. As it stands, the case of keeping the original label (PROB) might be as strong or stronger.

I agree. x! must stay but can move to an obscure place.
For the time being, as an experiment, I swapped x! and PROB for the reason to made PROB yellow as per 42S labels.

New image will follow soon.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
Posts: 280
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:00 pm

H2X wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am
That makes DRG a good partner to CONV. Colours might be swapped, if one wanted to stay closer to the HP42S / DM42.
I swapped them, I agree. Done.
Also added the arrow to DRG->. Done.
H2X wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
Added a HOME menu which comes if you press shift a third time. (Once shift is [f], twice is [g], three times clears and pops up the HOME menu). Works pretty neat.
The HOME menu is an invention of yours, right? I like the idea of the soft keys always being useful.

Good idea with a shortcut to it. Whether this is the right place needs some simmering, but off the bat - clearing seems more logical to me as the last step of the cycle.
Yes, my invention.

Let me just clarify the shift: one press brings up f. Another press brings up g. Another press clears the shift, and after that brings the home menu up. If you don't want the home menu for some reason, then press EXIT to return to the previous menu.

At the moment there is no other way to call the home menu.
Maybe I can use the INFO button on [g] [.] and call it HOME. On a shifted FN key, I could put INFO.
[/quote]

H2X wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:29 am
Soft menu with [EXP] [CPX] [FIN] [TRI] [DRG] [CAT] on the function keys.
EXIT goes back to the previous menu in case you accidentally cycled the shifts.
This is the HOME menu, right?

I am wondering if this changes the game a bit, regarding what is also shifted options of other keys. Does this mean that some of the other keys could be reconsidered?
I don't want this to change the game. I see it as a very powerful extra, but the calculator must work as envisaged, i.e. a hybrid between 32SII and 42S user interface.

I want to steer clear of deep menus like the 28C.

H2X wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:58 am
Perhaps freeing up a key for the shortcut to the HOME menu, instead of extending the shift key cycle?

Bonus question: Should the HOME menu have shifted options (why not)?
Maybe hijack the INFO key?
Yes, shifted options are ok. Next image includes the HOME screen.


Image
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:08 pm

I missed the colour change on ADV / FLAGS in the same sense as CONV and PROB which I did.

Will do.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Jaymos
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Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:26 pm

I did a printout and I cut out the negotiable labels and tried to re-assemble it in a way that make sense.

See the pics attached.

Some label pairs are now blue/blue etc. Don't worry about the colours. I will change that on computer later.

Image

Image

J
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:30 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:34 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:00 am
Put function STATUS on same key as menu FLAGS. Function x! can be removed again. I hope, x! is in the menu PROB. Rename RBR back to REGS. RBR, STATUS and TIMER all on the same line, because they are not programmable. Well, this also applies to ALPHA, SHIFT, USER, PRGM and EXIT. Ok it looks it is not a good idea to put STATUS on a KEY.
I assume you mean STAT when you write STATUS. STAT is for statistics and belongs with SUMS on the same key. STAT is for entering Sigma+ etc, and associated is SUMS for the various stats results.

...
I mean STATUS from the FLAGS menu. This function is a candidate for an f-key position. You can observe the status of the flags, similar to REGS, which shows the contents of the register. Maybe we could find another name. And there is no real meaning to have this function on an f key. But if there is a free f-key position.....
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Jaymos » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:30 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:34 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:00 am
Put function STATUS on same key as menu FLAGS. Function x! can be removed again. I hope, x! is in the menu PROB. Rename RBR back to REGS. RBR, STATUS and TIMER all on the same line, because they are not programmable. Well, this also applies to ALPHA, SHIFT, USER, PRGM and EXIT. Ok it looks it is not a good idea to put STATUS on a KEY.
I assume you mean STAT when you write STATUS. STAT is for statistics and belongs with SUMS on the same key. STAT is for entering Sigma+ etc, and associated is SUMS for the various stats results.

...
I mean STATUS from the FLAGS menu. This function is a candidate for an f-key position. You can observe the status of the flags, similar to REGS, which shows the contents of the register. Maybe we could find another name. And there is no real meaning to have this function on an f key. But if there is a free f-key position.....

Now I understand. I agree. It belongs next to REGS.
I think it is important. Maybe more than x!
Maybe x! Goes to the home menu.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Re: 43S Alternative key layout

Post by Dani R. » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:44 pm

Before I start with the puzzle, everything takes a little longer with me, one more question. Is the TRI menu still needed, or can DRG-> be placed there?
DM42 SN:00032

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