43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:59 am

inautilus wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:27 am
Not to worry. I can set the dimensions pixel size, whatever) to whatthey need to be. It is no concern at all. However, losing an email in transit ... somehow ... well that may be. Will wait to see what happens before sending the other stuff. :?
Also, the colour devils are rearing their heads on the yellow.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:10 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:58 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:15 am

... CUST1 [g] [COS] and CUST2 [g] [TAN]. Unlike MyMenu, CUST1 and CUST2 would be called explicitly and behave like a normal menu, except, of course, that you can edit the entries yourself. This allows you to better group your way of working by activity. Or you have already created the space for future add-on modules that need their own menu.
Dani,

Could you please explain how this is different to the MyMenu and associated key assignments?
Honestly, I have to say that I haven't worked my way through your proposal yet, and what could be more exclusive about my proposal. I have my head on other things at the moment.

What didn't catch my eye spontaneously was how expandability is handled in WP43. In the 41C I can plug in a module, find the module name in Catalog 2, can even view the individual labels of a module and can assign each label somewhere, save it to a magnetic card with WSTS and save it back again with this magnetic card. What made the 41C big, apart from the simple and clear concept, is not the lack of complex numbers and the lack of matrix. It is this concept of expandability that was the breakthrough.

Possibly any discussions on this topic belong in another thread, but I don't like to moderate it, I don't know the possibilities of the WP34S/WP43S enough.

If I look at the 42S it is elegantly solved, has an idiosyncratic alpha input, which fortunately is fixed with the DM42 and a programming model I am used to. But it has no possibilities for extensions like a 41C. I have the CONV program package and the FINANCE program package on the DM42. Otherwise I always make sure to have only six more programs installed and not to use an END label on the last one, so that scrolling through PGM is always identical. It would be better to manage the labels to CONV and to FINANCE itself. In DM42 this is not possible.

Extensibility: If the WP43 hits, as I think this is possible, one or the other user might get the idea to write extensions in c, which go beyond what you want to write in the programming model of the WP43. He then wants to compile his version. His extension would probably include a menu. Where to put it? Sacrifice one of the existing ones? Overwrite FIN? Maybe he wants to use FIN with his ASTRO at the same time. Therefore it can make sense to reserve space on the keyboard for your own CUST menu. Hence my remark "Or you have already created the space for future add-on modules that need their own menu".

But at the moment I see only one position for a possible CUST. Maybe I had thought too much and you can call these (possibly never developing) additional custom menus very easily from HOME.

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 am

202. Fix Alpha key layout and menus that is broken due to layout change
I think you can change the letter assignment in 'assign.c' to the new old needs (primaryAim, fShiftedAim, gShiftedAim).
DM42 SN:00032

LudgerP
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by LudgerP » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:30 pm

Hallo to all!

I am new in this forum and i am very impressed of the great work that is done here for the best calculator, the world has ever seen!
Some remarks:

1) For me, the keyboard layout developed in this discussion looks much better, than the original layout by Walter.

2) Concerning the last discussion about the register view (browser) and flag view, i suggest the key labels REG.V and FLG.V.

3) Please do not change the color of the key labels of the letters A-Z to red as someone suggested here some pages before. Red on an dark grey, black or dark brown is unreadable for people with red/green defect on their eyes. We need an bright/dark contrast to recognize.

4) I don't understand the need of the DROP button. We can use the left-arrow button for this like it is done on the HP50G. In Walter's manual, the left-arrow button makes a CLRX, it fills the X register with zero (if i understand it right). I think, this is a nearly useless function - what do you want to do with this zero in X register?

5) We have a lot of unit conversion values and constants in the calculator. We also can display an integer number as binary or hexadecimal number of different length and one's-complement or two's-complement. What i miss is the conversion (or more a display) of a real value according to IEEE754. For example, i have the value -3.1415926535E-7 in the X register and i want to have it displayed hexadecimal or bitwise as a single float (4 byte) and decomposed the sign, exponent and mantisse part (the following display is only an example):
hex: AB CD EF 01
sign: 1
exponent: 3 BC
mantisse: D EF 01
It should be possible to switch the endianess and between float/double. The extended formats could be leave out, because they are more complicated due to the lenght of mantissa and exponent are implementation dependend.

So, that was it for the first time.

Bye, Ludger

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm

@Dani, re. custom menus from user programs:

On the 41C, you'd have overlays. That might be possible on the 43C (and 43S) as well. You might have to override standard shifted functions, which would require support from the main project.

In addition to that, there could be custom menus on the soft keys, where the entries themselves are menus.

Problem solved?
DM42 SN:00040 | Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible - Frank Zappa

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:47 pm

H2X wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 pm
@Dani, re. custom menus from user programs:

On the 41C, you'd have overlays. That might be possible on the 43C (and 43S) as well. You might have to override standard shifted functions, which would require support from the main project.

In addition to that, there could be custom menus on the soft keys, where the entries themselves are menus.

Problem solved?
Yes, of course, but you have to go to another menu first. It's not really a problem, it's just a nice to have.
If you take the trouble to write a package like the FIN package then you might want to have your own position for a menu.
DM42 SN:00032

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H2X
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by H2X » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:47 pm
Yes, of course, but you have to go to another menu first. It's not really a problem, it's just a nice to have.
If you take the trouble to write a package like the FIN package then you might want to have your own position for a menu.
So one free shifted spot on a "hard" key (i.e. not a soft key), reserved for your program, would help?

I don't know the 41C well enough, but is that how it works there? I thought all shifts was cleared when you were using an overlay.
DM42 SN:00040 | Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible - Frank Zappa

Dani R.
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Dani R. » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:19 pm

H2X wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:47 pm
Yes, of course, but you have to go to another menu first. It's not really a problem, it's just a nice to have.
If you take the trouble to write a package like the FIN package then you might want to have your own position for a menu.
So one free shifted spot on a "hard" key (i.e. not a soft key), reserved for your program, would help?
Yeah, this is nice to have. But not any more.
H2X wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm
I don't know the 41C well enough, but is that how it works there? I thought all shifts was cleared when you were using an overlay.
No, the 41c doesn't work that way, but it doesn't have menus either. I have to dive into the possibilities of the ASN again. If you can put together your own virtual menu and then call it up in the USER at any location, this is almost equivalent as good. There is practically no room for CUST anyway.
DM42 SN:00032

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:42 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:19 pm
H2X wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm
Dani R. wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:47 pm
Yes, of course, but you have to go to another menu first. It's not really a problem, it's just a nice to have.
If you take the trouble to write a package like the FIN package then you might want to have your own position for a menu.
So one free shifted spot on a "hard" key (i.e. not a soft key), reserved for your program, would help?
Yeah, this is nice to have. But not any more.
H2X wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm
I don't know the 41C well enough, but is that how it works there? I thought all shifts was cleared when you were using an overlay.
No, the 41c doesn't work that way, but it doesn't have menus either. I have to dive into the possibilities of the ASN again. If you can put together your own virtual menu and then call it up in the USER at any location, this is almost equivalent as good. There is practically no room for CUST anyway.
Almost every button and f/g label on the keyboard can be assigned. That means you can make a new temporary f/g key label template for each package.

Additionally,

The main project provides one menu, MyMenu, with 18 locations, which you can call what you want, provided the names are unique.

Top left button E+ is definitely a first choice primary button to assign to bring up your MyMenu. Also, the HOME key label position could easily be assigned to your menu. (Triple shift still calls the HOME menu regardless of the key).

So it seems that the basic functionality is achieved without c.

I think that the problem to solve is to ask Walter to include more than one MyMenu.

Edited to correct sloppy English
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

Patrick
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Patrick » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm

The work you all do here is really fantastic.

Currently, I am able to compile the WP43s emulator in order to quickly track and test the changes made to it.

I was wondering if it was possible to do the same with the version you are developing and, if so, in what way.

Thanks,

Patrick
Unit SN: 00044

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S Alternative key layout --> WP43C

Post by Jaymos » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 pm

Patrick wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm
The work you all do here is really fantastic.

Currently, I am able to compile the WP43s emulator in order to quickly track and test the changes made to it.

I was wondering if it was possible to do the same with the version you are developing and, if so, in what way.

Thanks,

Patrick
Great.

Do you use Windows or Mac or Linux?
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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