43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:16 pm

Thanks & merci to Martin - these were fast fixes. :D
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Jaymos
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Question

Post by Jaymos » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:29 pm

I am not sure if this is normal operation:

Delete backup.bin file
Set to POLAR
2 CC 160 ENTER
CC
f[d.ms]

This results in the complex number in Register Z changing to d.ms, but the angle in Register X remains in degrees.
Also, there is no way I can get the d.ms display in the complex number back to decimal degrees.

Is this normal?
dms demo.png
dms demo.png (5.86 KiB) Viewed 1164 times
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Walter
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Re: Question

Post by Walter » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:31 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:29 pm
This results in the complex number in Register Z changing to d.ms, but the angle in Register X remains in degrees.
Also, there is no way I can get the d.ms display in the complex number back to decimal degrees.

Is this normal?
To return to decimal degrees, press g MODE DEG.

Yes, this is normal. Please see the OM about ADM.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Guenter
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Re: Change Request

Post by Guenter » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:52 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:10 pm

Request2: STAT menu: it makes more sense to have both E+ and E- on a primary FN1 and FN2. If one would be inclined to use either, it would be better to have it more readily available. A solution would be to put E+ and E- next to one another on primary FN keys.
While I was playing around with the WP43C before suddenly giving a talk an WP43S/C at the HHC I found it rather annoying that the Ʃ- was only available as a shifted function. I see that on the WP43S the Ʃ+ function is not on the keyboard other than on the WP43C therefor it needs to be there where it is. But it would be nice if the Ʃ- function also was accessible unshifted in order make life easier for the WP43C and to have it unshifted available on the WP43S too. I believe that almost any other function of the STAT menu could be exchanged with the Ʃ-.

Any comments?
Günter
DM42 SN:00004 and SN:00184

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Walter
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Re: Change Request

Post by Walter » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:10 pm

Guenter wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:52 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:10 pm
Request2: STAT menu: it makes more sense to have both E+ and E- on a primary FN1 and FN2. If one would be inclined to use either, it would be better to have it more readily available. A solution would be to put E+ and E- next to one another on primary FN keys.
... I found it rather annoying that the Ʃ- was only available as a shifted function. I see that on the WP43S the Ʃ+ function is not on the keyboard other than on the WP43C therefor it needs to be there where it is. But it would be nice if the Ʃ- function also was accessible unshifted in order make life easier for the WP43C and to have it unshifted available on the WP43S too. I believe that almost any other function of the STAT menu could be exchanged with the Ʃ-.

Any comments?
Yes, one comment: Ʃ- is (mainly) a corrective function, so it shall be shifted like it was on each and every calculator where Ʃ+ is featured. And if you take a closer look at STAT, you may see the structure of this menu view - an unshifted Ʃ- would break this, too. BTW, never seen E+ or E-.

Please see the actual layout here: (hmmh, attaching a file did work better last time :o How to place it in-line? :? )
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Guenter
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Re: Change Request

Post by Guenter » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:05 pm

Walter wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:10 pm
Guenter wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:52 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:10 pm
Request2: STAT menu: it makes more sense to have both E+ and E- on a primary FN1 and FN2. If one would be inclined to use either, it would be better to have it more readily available. A solution would be to put E+ and E- next to one another on primary FN keys.
... I found it rather annoying that the Ʃ- was only available as a shifted function. I see that on the WP43S the Ʃ+ function is not on the keyboard other than on the WP43C therefor it needs to be there where it is. But it would be nice if the Ʃ- function also was accessible unshifted in order make life easier for the WP43C and to have it unshifted available on the WP43S too. I believe that almost any other function of the STAT menu could be exchanged with the Ʃ-.

Any comments?
Yes, one comment: Ʃ- is (mainly) a corrective function, so it shall be shifted like it was on each and every calculator where Ʃ+ is featured. And if you take a closer look at STAT, you may see the structure of this menu view - an unshifted Ʃ- would break this, too. BTW, never seen E+ or E-.

Please see the actual layout here: (hmmh, attaching a file did work better last time :o How to place it in-line? :? )
You're right absolut right of course, Ʃ- is in principal a corrective action, and usually on a shifted key. But I think, this is this way because of limited keys available. Now with these menus at hand I thought there were other functions, e.g. x², which are perhaps less important for direct access within the STAT environment. I must admit of course that im driven by the opportunity to directly use WP43C on one of my DM42. Well Jaco explained that he will change that anyway, but It would be nice to have as few deviations from the standard code as possible. O.k. I understand that this doesn't have to be your major concern. And yes, I see the structure of the STAT menu.

Günter

PS: And I will a buy a WP43S (or DM43S) of course once it will be available :)
DM42 SN:00004 and SN:00184

Dani R.
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43S - NOP

Post by Dani R. » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:30 am

HP-41C and HP-42S have the possibility to cancel the execution of a operation by pressing the key longer (NULL). Exceptions are, as far as I can see, the number keys, the 'EEX' key, which is treated as a number, and the 'shift' key. Also the 'EXIT' key on the HP-42S. Otherwise this "not" functionality seems to be realized with every operator. Also with the 'ENTER' key. When we are entering a number, the input will be aborted, but there is no stack lift, i.e. 'X' will not be copied to 'Y'. (This seems to be another trick on the DM42 to finish the input. Known is the trick to press 'EXIT' to avoid the stack lift.) The WP43S supports this "not" functionality as well (NOP).
I noticed that the operators 'ENTER' and 'CC' do not support this timeout.

Question; Is this a bug or a feature?
Follow-up question; If this is a feature, why?


d
DM42 SN:00032

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:57 pm

AFAICS, also [+/-], [EXIT], and [<-] don't fall back to NOP on the 43S. Together with [ENTER], [CC], [E], and the digits this is a quite sensible feature from my point of view: all these keys are mainly used for numeric input - except [EXIT] and sometimes [CC]. The latter two can be reverted most easily so there's no need for NOP here.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

Dani R.
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Re: 43S News

Post by Dani R. » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:25 pm

Thanks for completing the list. Exciting, on the HP-41C and HP-42S when entering a number the 'CHS' cant be cancelled. But when the number is completely entered, i.e. in the 'X' register, 'CHS' is treated like the other operators, so you can cancel the change of the sign. The WP43S behaves in the same way here.

As written, 'EEX' is a digit, like '0'...'9', the behavior is no problem, it is a feature. 'EXIT' also makes sense that no abort is possible here. We can debate whether 'CC' should behave like 'CHS'. But this is not a significant issue.

With 'ENTER' and especially with '<-' data loss can occur. With 'ENTER' you can push something out of the stack. With '<-' you can delete a calculation result that has not yet been saved.


Dani
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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:06 pm

Dani R. wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:25 pm
Thanks for completing the list. Exciting, on the HP-41C and HP-42S when entering a number the 'CHS' cant be cancelled. But when the number is completely entered, i.e. in the 'X' register, 'CHS' is treated like the other operators, so you can cancel the change of the sign. The WP43S behaves in the same way here.

As written, 'EEX' is a digit, like '0'...'9', the behavior is no problem, it is a feature. 'EXIT' also makes sense that no abort is possible here. We can debate whether 'CC' should behave like 'CHS'. But this is not a significant issue.

With 'ENTER' and especially with '<-' data loss can occur. With 'ENTER' you can push something out of the stack. With '<-' you can delete a calculation result that has not yet been saved.


Dani
I quickly pulled out a few calculators to see what the others do. 35S does nothing. 28C times out and does the command any way. 32SII does nothing. 42S you reported on. WP34S does NULL where data loss would occur and some functions awaits input and must simply be EXITed - quite nice. CPX must be EXITed and exits without data loss. ENTER, +/-, E are like the digits, and can be cleared by EXIT, which clears and not terminates. WP31S and WP34C are similar.

I like your statements about ENTER and CC data loss.

But on the 43S, like the 31S, the issue is not really data loss because the UNDO command will get all lost data back, i.e. back to the full calculator status prior to the ENTER or CC.

But it is a nice to have to have these NOPs, it is a real nice to have, because it is nicer to abort than to do a recovery function f[<-]. But it is even nicer to know we can UNDO.

Bearing in mind the UNDO advantage of the 43S, to not have CC and ENTER time out to NOP, in my opinion, is ok.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, PB700; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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