43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:27 pm

jfb9301 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:39 pm
Looking back at the keyboard layout, I have a question.

Why are the operators /*-+ on the left and the exit, up, down... on the right?
As Bob wrote already, this is a religuous topic ;) Nevertheless I'll try to summarice the facts:

All of HP's pocket calculators up to and including the famous HP-41C had the arithmetic operators on the left below ENTER. The Voyagers had to put them on the right for obvious reasons. With the Pioneers, they staid on the right - but ENTER remained on the left. So much about HP's logical development.

There was a very extensive discussion of this topic on the forum of MoHPC in 2012 IIRC, followed by a poll. After all, many people agreed on ENTER and the 4 operators should be in the same column (for various reasons). And the poll resulted in our decision (we, the developers) to place the 4 operators on the left, backed by a majority of votes IIRC.

So, now they are there.

There is, however, a medicine for those who would rather die than accept the 4 operators there: you're free to reassign each and every key and function of the 43S except USR. Hope this helps.
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:29 pm

dlachieze wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:18 pm
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 pm
And the top arrow denotes the program pointer pointing to step 0000, the top of program memory.
Why would you need this indicator? I would expect the program memory on the 43S to be managed with individual programs each starting at step 0001 and ending with END as for the 41C and 42S.
Maybe. But is not yet.
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dlachieze
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Re: 43S News

Post by dlachieze » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:03 pm

Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:27 pm
And the poll resulted in our decision (we, the developers) to place the 4 operators on the left, backed by a majority of votes IIRC.

So, now they are there.
Yes there was a pretty extensive discussion and I'm not trying to reopen the topic, but I'm wondering if the ON key location at the bottom right is compatible with the current DM42 board design or if it will require a new PCB?
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:29 pm
dlachieze wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:18 pm
Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 pm
And the top arrow denotes the program pointer pointing to step 0000, the top of program memory.
Why would you need this indicator? I would expect the program memory on the 43S to be managed with individual programs each starting at step 0001 and ending with END as for the 41C and 42S.
Maybe. But is not yet.
And why would you need it anyway ? I never found this indicator useful on the WP 34S.
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:10 pm

dlachieze wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:03 pm
... I'm wondering if the ON key location at the bottom right is compatible with the current DM42 board design or if it will require a new PCB?
This was clarified really early. Michael confirmed it's compatible with the current PCB.
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jfb9301
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Re: 43S News

Post by jfb9301 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:17 pm

Walter wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:27 pm
All of HP's pocket calculators up to and including the famous HP-41C had the arithmetic operators on the left below ENTER. The Voyagers had to put them on the right for obvious reasons. With the Pioneers, they staid on the right - but ENTER remained on the left. So much about HP's logical development.

There was a very extensive discussion of this topic on the forum of MoHPC in 2012 IIRC, followed by a poll. After all, many people agreed on ENTER and the 4 operators should be in the same column (for various reasons). And the poll resulted in our decision (we, the developers) to place the 4 operators on the left, backed by a majority of votes IIRC.

So, now they are there.

There is, however, a medicine for those who would rather die than accept the 4 operators there: you're free to reassign each and every key and function of the 43S except USR. Hope this helps.
Well, that explains that. I just had to ask as the W34s had the keys the other way round (meaning operators on the right). I learned RPN in the late 80s, and only used voyagers and pioneers, so I don't have any experience with earlier designs.

I like the idea of reassignment, but that causes another question for me. Can you reassign just the un-shifted function, or do you reassign the whole key (un-shifted, F, and G function), all functions together?

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Re: 43S News

Post by Helix » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:24 pm

keithdalby wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:49 am
Am I the only one who doesn't like the look of this? I mean no disrespect, but it looks terribly cluttered to me.
My first impression was also a cluttered display.
But I think it should be easy to fix: just add a thin line below the annunciators (or use inverted display, like in the DM42), and another permanent line above the three menus. That would divide the screen into 3 separate blocks (annunciators/stack/menus), in a logical way.

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:43 pm

jfb9301 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:17 pm
I like the idea of reassignment, but that causes another question for me. Can you reassign just the un-shifted function, or do you reassign the whole key (un-shifted, F, and G function), all functions together?
You can reassign each label separately. E.g. only the f-shifted function of a key, or just the g-shifted one, etc.
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Re: 43S News

Post by dlachieze » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:48 pm

Can you reassign the ON key?
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:49 pm

Helix wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:24 pm
My first impression was also a cluttered display.
But I think it should be easy to fix: just add a thin line below the annunciators (or use inverted display, like in the DM42), and another permanent line above the three menus. That would divide the screen into 3 separate blocks (annunciators/stack/menus), in a logical way.
That must be tried on the original HW. Though most books are printed with black letters on white background still nowadays, so I'm a bit reluctant about wide area inverting. But that's just graphic typesetting, no major obstacle ;)
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:53 pm

dlachieze wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:48 pm
Can you reassign the ON key?
I didn't try yet ... depends where the ON functionality is defined. Can neither confirm nor deny for sure right now.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

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