43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:10 pm

H2X wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 pm
rprosperi wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 pm
Though I would agree that simple colored yellow and blue buttons are sufficiently clear for use on the device (or emulator) itself, having [f] and [g] labels on the buttons will make it much easier to document and comment, put into program listings, etc. on which keys to use, for example in this very post. If only colored, then one would have to say something like [yellow] or [blue] which takes more space, is less concise, etc.

The machines with only a single color/shift didn't need this as there could be no confusion, though even for these machines the listings most often appear as [f] [ASIN] or similar, rather than [Shift] [ASIN] because it's easier and arguably more clear; this behavior is no doubt influenced by folks having used machines with true [f] keys.

Just another aspect to consider in the debate.
Interesting! But maybe only [SHIFT] is really needed, as long as yellow and blue label names never clash - which they don't?

Consider [SHIFT]+[LOOP] and [SHIFT]+[TEST] as but one example. You'd still need to locate which button the [LOOP] and [TEST] labels are on, regardless of how you refer to the fact they are shifted.
One aspect more: So far, when you press [g], an elevated 'g' will be echoed. If you'd just have plain colours, what will be the echo?
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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:25 pm

Walter wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:10 pm
H2X wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 pm
rprosperi wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 pm
Though I would agree that simple colored yellow and blue buttons are sufficiently clear for use on the device (or emulator) itself, having [f] and [g] labels on the buttons will make it much easier to document and comment, put into program listings, etc. on which keys to use, for example in this very post. If only colored, then one would have to say something like [yellow] or [blue] which takes more space, is less concise, etc.

The machines with only a single color/shift didn't need this as there could be no confusion, though even for these machines the listings most often appear as [f] [ASIN] or similar, rather than [Shift] [ASIN] because it's easier and arguably more clear; this behavior is no doubt influenced by folks having used machines with true [f] keys.

Just another aspect to consider in the debate.
Interesting! But maybe only [SHIFT] is really needed, as long as yellow and blue label names never clash - which they don't?

Consider [SHIFT]+[LOOP] and [SHIFT]+[TEST] as but one example. You'd still need to locate which button the [LOOP] and [TEST] labels are on, regardless of how you refer to the fact they are shifted.
One aspect more: So far, when you press [g], an elevated 'g' will be echoed. If you'd just have plain colours, what will be the echo?
The area of my corner still without paint is shrinking, but sticking to my story - SHIFT?

Though this does not lend itself well to echoing what one might expect when clicking the same shift key two times in succession (reverting the shift) or either of the two after each other (cancelling the first and activating the second).

I guess this is as far as the colourless argument goes.
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Dani R.
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Re: 43S News

Post by Dani R. » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 pm

Walter wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:10 pm
One aspect more: So far, when you press [g], an elevated 'g' will be echoed. If you'd just have plain colours, what will be the echo?
I apologize for stealing the time. Something should be indexed, so the first choice is to leave [f] and [g] :oops: .
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dlachieze
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Re: 43S News

Post by dlachieze » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:43 pm

In term of usability you cannot rely only on colors if you want your product to be usable by color blind people.
Colors are great for people that can see them but as mentioned above, you need also another differentiator, either a letter (f / g) or a sign (left arrow / right arrow) that can be listed in the documentation and that can also be echoed in the display to indicate how your next keystroke will be interpreted.
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Re: 43S News

Post by inautilus » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:12 pm

Please forgive me ... but will the screen of the intended hardware (yet to be committed to) be able to display colour?
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Re: 43S News

Post by inautilus » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:32 pm

@dlachieze
For a long time .... Stop Lights have been standardized. Red ball is top or left side of the array, amber ball is to the right of or below red. Green ball is below or to the right of amber. Turn arrows follow the same pattern. The colour blind may not be able to tell the colors apart, but they can see which of the 3 lights are lit. The red is always the topmost one (it is an international traffic agreement).
Image
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:56 pm

inautilus wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:12 pm
Please forgive me ... but will the screen of the intended hardware (yet to be committed to) be able to display colour?
Please look to your DM42 and guess. 8-)
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inautilus
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Re: 43S News

Post by inautilus » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:13 pm

Well, I'm still not sure ... I'm going off of the latest information I have, not being sure if there has been a platform definitively committed to at this point. What I have is what you kindly posted:

Image

And I see colour in the bezel area. Is the colour generated by the screen ... or is it printed on a 'bezel'?
You are in a much better position than I to to advise ... thank you in advance. :)
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:18 pm

inautilus wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:13 pm
Well, I'm still not sure ... I'm going off of the latest information I have, not being sure if there has been a platform definitively committed to at this point. What I have is what you kindly posted:

Image

And I see colour in the bezel area. Is the colour generated by the screen ... or is it printed on a 'bezel'?
You are in a much better position than I to to advise ... thank you in advance. :)
Well, this is not the DM42...
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inautilus
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Re: 43S News

Post by inautilus » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:04 am

Gentlemen, where does one get an image (a working layout like the preceding post) to work with / play around with for investigating 'what if' scenarios? Are these just static images, or are they the actual display of a working simulator ... ?

Also, what kind of an echo is displayed on the screen when any one of the 3 shift keys is pressed? In other words, what is displayed. Thanks ...
D A MacDonald
Mar Eng, Designer, CANADA
HP35, HP41C, HP28S, HP35s. PC: HP15C, Free42, WP31S, WP34S
(Operators Right in bold)
"It is not the strongest or most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change ..." Darwin

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