43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:16 pm

This is how the simulator looks right now:
simulator_b.png
simulator_b.png (73.93 KiB) Viewed 348 times
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
Over_score
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 7:37 pm
Location: France

Re: 43S News

Post by Over_score » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:56 am

And here the portrait version
Image
DM42, DM15L, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime

User avatar
Jaymos
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:03 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:05 am

With reference to last week's discussions on polls, left/right and operator sequence, my comment is simply to be extremely grateful to the developers. Also that it is done in open source. I propose not to argue with the developers on their choices, but simply motivate or ask as potential user for changes. If the answer is no and it still is important enough to spend the time, jump into the code and change it. Long arguments to have it done differently won't help speed it along.

For me it is important enough to spend my time to changing it for at least the left/right swap, and while I'm busy in the code, I added eRPN and made a few more niggling text changes. I could try do a patch for operator sequence change for operators on the left like the old HP's. I accepted that key stickers will be needed.
Jaymos wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:01 pm
... My emulator currently works in Entry RPN mode, has some labels changed from symbols to TEXT (eg. CONV instead of U>), and has the / * - + operators moved to the right ...
I fiddled further and the total changes I made up to now are listed and visible on the side by side emulator pics below:

1. Changed "/" with obelus. (HP42S style).
2. Increased the font size of the 4 operators on the emulator.
3. Removed the top key "ˆ" labels. (DM42 style).
4. Change lg to log. (HP42S style).
5. Changed CC to CPX. (WP34S style).
6. Changed +/- to CHS. (HP28C style).
7. Changed P/R to PRGM. (HP42S style).
8. Swapped operators left/right, keeping the sequence. (HP42S style).
9. Changed to eRPN. (HP28C style).
10. Shifted the alpha letters and greek letters around due to the left right swap.

For now I decided not to change all the second row keys to match the DM42 hardware keys.

Image
Note: MODIFIED unofficial layout LEFT. Latest official layout RIGHT. (Both Mac)
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:24 am

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:05 am
I fiddled further and the total changes I made up to now are listed and visible on the side by side emulator pics below:

1. Changed "/" with obelus. (HP42S style).
2. Increased the font size of the 4 operators on the emulator.
3. Removed the top key "ˆ" labels. (DM42 style).
4. Change lg to log. (HP42S style).
5. Changed CC to CPX. (WP34S style).
6. Changed +/- to CHS. (HP28C style).
7. Changed P/R to PRGM. (HP42S style).
8. Swapped operators left/right, keeping the sequence. (HP42S style).
9. Changed to eRPN. (HP28C style).
10. Shifted the alpha letters and greek letters around due to the left right swap.

For now I decided not to change all the second row keys to match the DM42 hardware keys.
Thanks for your kind words. Some comments:

1. / (or maybe even : ). Cf. ISO 80000-2: "The symbol ÷ should not be used." :o
2. Cosmetics. 8-)
3. We could call "^" HP27S style FWIW. ;)
4. True, but pursuing an error: LOG is the general logarithm, lg is the decadic. Cf. ISO 80000-2: "log x shall not be used in place of ln x, lg x ..." :shock:
5. Did you notice there's another CPX present already? :o
6. +/- (Pioneer style). 8-)
7. P/R (Voyager style). 8-)
8. See many earlier posts. ;)
9. We stick to HP's traditional RPN. 8-)
10. You should shift some shifted labels as well.

Layouting is more fun than you might expect.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

toml_12953
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

Re: 43S News

Post by toml_12953 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:13 am

Jaymos wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:05 am
With reference to last week's discussions on polls, left/right and operator sequence, my comment is simply to be extremely grateful to the developers. Also that it is done in open source. I propose not to argue with the developers on their choices, but simply motivate or ask as potential user for changes. If the answer is no and it still is important enough to spend the time, jump into the code and change it. Long arguments to have it done differently won't help speed it along.
Personally, I'm also just glad there is such a machine coming. Did HP ask before introducing machines with different layouts? No! We were all still ready to buy the best-made machines in the world.

P.S. Who the hell actually uses the word "obelus" when they talk about a division symbol?

No native English speakers I've ever heard! That's why it's found in the list of "Rare and Uncommon Words"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... iblioklept
Tom L

Nerd Emeritus

DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:12 am

toml_12953 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:13 am
P.S. Who the hell actually uses the word "obelus" when they talk about a division symbol?

No native English speakers I've ever heard! That's why it's found in the list of "Rare and Uncommon Words"
A division symbol may be "/" and ":" (cf. ISO 80000-2) - thus one needs the term "obelus" for that abomination (pun intended).
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

User avatar
H2X
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 am
Location: Norway

Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:53 pm

toml_12953 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:13 am
... That's why it's found in the list of "Rare and Uncommon Words"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... iblioklept
https://www.asterix.com/en/portfolio/obelus/
DM42 SN:00040 | Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible - Frank Zappa

toml_12953
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:46 pm
Location: Malone, NY USA

Re: 43S News

Post by toml_12953 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:41 pm

H2X wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:53 pm
toml_12953 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:13 am
... That's why it's found in the list of "Rare and Uncommon Words"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... iblioklept
https://www.asterix.com/en/portfolio/obelus/
Thanks! I love Asterix. We had to read all the comics throughout my years of French classes.
Tom L

Nerd Emeritus

DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
SN: 00221 (Shipping)

User avatar
Over_score
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 7:37 pm
Location: France

Re: 43S News

Post by Over_score » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:16 pm

Walter wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:24 am
1. / (or maybe even : ). Cf. ISO 80000-2: "The symbol ÷ should not be used." :o
4. True, but pursuing an error: LOG is the general logarithm, lg is the decadic. Cf. ISO 80000-2: "log x shall not be used in place of ln x, lg x ..." :shock:
For those interested: https://people.engr.ncsu.edu/jwilson/fi ... hsigns.pdf page 17 and 24
DM42, DM15L, HP41CV, HP42S, HP35s, WP34S, HP Prime

User avatar
Walter
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Close to FRA, Germany

Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:20 pm

H2X wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:53 pm
toml_12953 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:13 am
... That's why it's found in the list of "Rare and Uncommon Words"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-a ... iblioklept
https://www.asterix.com/en/portfolio/obelus/
Thanks for sharing this link, Haakon. In a way he even looks like one :lol:
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

Post Reply