43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon May 27, 2019 8:53 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:16 pm
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
B1. I can't find SIG on my WP34S. Where shall it be and what shall it do? :?
http://www.cocoon-creations.com/download/IMG_9553.PNG
Easy to compile into the WP34S and make a sticker.
I would love for it to be in the WP43S.
The link doesn't show SIG, AFAICS. Neither does it explain its functionality. :? :?

Regarding LASTx, RCL L will stay.
Regarding hyperbolics, I'll wait for more votes. After all, it can be changed most easily.
Regarding point 6: My fault. Please forget the footnote reference here.

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:16 pm
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
7. That's no typo. Please check math notation.
WP43S UM p146: wrote: "Special cases: If a negative magnitude is entered, it is made positive
and ϑ is increased by π and then normalized (i.e. ϑ will never
exceed the interval (− π, π] in radians or its equivalents – cf. p. 122)."
I checked again and I really cannot see how this is correct.
ϑ ∈ (-π, π] is equivalent to -π < ϑ ≤ π.

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:16 pm
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
10b. Footnote 122 is about interactive entry of complex numbers only.
I would prefer the same operation for both ways, consistent with the 42S tradition. I use complex numbers a lot, and having two opposing ways of entry will result in constantly doing it wrong.

The backwards entry style compared to 42S also is the reason that for complex numbers I never use the WP34S but always rather use my WP34C. Most certainly different entry methods in the same machine will be massively confusing to the user not using complex numbers often.
Understood. Will discuss internally.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon May 27, 2019 8:58 pm

H2X wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:48 pm
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:16 pm
... my WP34C ...
What is a WP34C?
It's a branch of WP34S. It was developed based on WP34S at a certain stage but not by us. Jaco should be able to tell you more about its parents.
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Mon May 27, 2019 9:11 pm

Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 8:53 pm
The link doesn't show SIG, AFAICS. Neither does it explain its functionality. :? :?
I quoted Bit's explanation of SIG mode here:
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:57 am
... https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-3029.html. You are right ...
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 8:53 pm
ϑ ∈ (-π, π] is equivalent to -π < ϑ ≤ π.
Thank you for explaining. I never knew.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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Walter
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Re: 43S News

Post by Walter » Mon May 27, 2019 9:31 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:11 pm
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 8:53 pm
The link doesn't show SIG, AFAICS. Neither does it explain its functionality. :? :?
I quoted Bit's explanation of SIG mode here:
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:57 am
... https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-3029.html. You are right ...
Thanks - I obviously missed that. Not quite sure I got the fundamental difference to SCI, however, which was invented for such display tasks IIRC. Still :?
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Mon May 27, 2019 9:34 pm

H2X wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:48 pm
What is a WP34C?
WP34C is a branch of the main WP34S which includes the Complex Lock functionality, which basically is a selectable mode locking all operations to complex mode.

This mode allows entry of the complex parts in natural REAL, IMAG order and removes the need to press CPX before each complex operation. The branch including source, binaries, docs and executables can be found in the same location as the standard WP34S project https://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code, specifically the WP34C emulators at http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/bra ... ndows/bin/

Complex Lock mode was added to the WP34S project tree and became the “Complex Branch”. Here the original intro: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-3 ... ight=wp34c. According to the hpmuseum page, the idea was by Jeff O and the coding was by Nigel (UK). On 2015-03-17 Pauli, who was part of the original development team of the WP34S, suggested the new WP34C name, and that stuck.

The purpose, as per the author Nigel (UK): "This mode setting allows the WP34s to enter complex mode, using the key combination stated below (ed. [->] [CPX]). This does not affect operation of the WP34s in normal or real mode. Pressing CPX prior to executing a function will behave exactly as in the past, by executing a complex version of the specified function (if a complex version is defined) on x and y."

Nigel's original description is here: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/attachment.php?aid=1878

Typical key sequences demonstrating basic functions:

[=>] [CPX] sets it into complex lock mode.
4 CPX 3 CPX Stack: X = 4 + 3j Y = 0
ENTER Stack: X = 4 + 3j Y = 4 + 3i
2 x + Stack: X = 12 + 9j Y = 0
[g] [>P] Stack: X = 15 Ang 36.87 Y = 0

Edit1: added the original intro link.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Tue May 28, 2019 10:26 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:34 pm
H2X wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:48 pm
What is a WP34C?
WP34C is a branch of the main WP34S which includes the Complex Lock functionality, which basically is a selectable mode locking all operations to complex mode.

This mode allows entry of the complex parts in natural REAL, IMAG order and removes the need to press CPX before each complex operation. The branch including source, binaries, docs and executables can be found in the same location as the standard WP34S project https://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code, specifically the WP34C emulators at http://svn.code.sf.net/p/wp34s/code/bra ... ndows/bin/

Complex Lock mode was added to the WP34S project tree and became the “Complex Branch”. Here the original intro: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-3 ... ight=wp34c. According to the hpmuseum page, the idea was by Jeff O and the coding was by Nigel (UK). On 2015-03-17 Pauli, who was part of the original development team of the WP34S, suggested the new WP34C name, and that stuck.

The purpose, as per the author Nigel (UK): "This mode setting allows the WP34s to enter complex mode, using the key combination stated below (ed. [->] [CPX]). This does not affect operation of the WP34s in normal or real mode. Pressing CPX prior to executing a function will behave exactly as in the past, by executing a complex version of the specified function (if a complex version is defined) on x and y."

Nigel's original description is here: https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/attachment.php?aid=1878

Typical key sequences demonstrating basic functions:

[=>] [CPX] sets it into complex lock mode.
4 CPX 3 CPX Stack: X = 4 + 3j Y = 0
ENTER Stack: X = 4 + 3j Y = 4 + 3i
2 x + Stack: X = 12 + 9j Y = 0
[g] [>P] Stack: X = 15 Ang 36.87 Y = 0

Edit1: added the original intro link.
Does it alter the keyboard layout / require new stickers?
DM42 SN:00040
When I die, I'm gonna leave my body to science fiction (Steven Wright)

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Tue May 28, 2019 11:11 pm

No it does not require new stickers. You can flash it and try out on the standard layout.
Jaco
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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ijabbott
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Re: 43S News

Post by ijabbott » Tue May 28, 2019 11:18 pm

Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:11 pm
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 8:53 pm
ϑ ∈ (-π, π] is equivalent to -π < ϑ ≤ π.
Thank you for explaining. I never knew.
You might also see it written as: ]-π, π], but I think (-π, π] is the more common style. The round bracket (parenthesis), or reversed square bracket means the value given at that end of the range is excluded from the interval. Whereas a non-reversed square bracket means the value given at that end of the range is included in the interval.

toml_12953
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Re: 43S News

Post by toml_12953 » Wed May 29, 2019 1:14 am

ijabbott wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:18 pm

You might also see it written as: ]-π, π], but I think (-π, π] is the more common style. The round bracket (parenthesis), or reversed square bracket means the value given at that end of the range is excluded from the interval. Whereas a non-reversed square bracket means the value given at that end of the range is included in the interval.
How about this: (0,0) :D
Tom L

Nerd Emeritus

DM42 SN: 00025 (Beta)
SN: 00221 (Shipping)

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Jaymos
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Re: 43S News

Post by Jaymos » Wed May 29, 2019 1:57 am

Jaymos wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 3:05 pm
13. I am very keen to try modify the (WP43S) code to stick with the DM42 hardware layout, i.e. swapping the lower 4 keys on the left with the right.
I scratched in the WP43S emulator code and found some good reasons why some or all of the dev team won't entertain the idea of officially changing the operators to the right hand side of the calculator.

Firstly, I want to say the WP43S code is well written, and the manuals too. At least from my perspective as engineer, the code is understandable and clear. More than can be said of anything I programmed before. Congrats to the authors.

So, I modified code to swap the keys and the emulator still works properly. But as was said many times before on these forums, there are a lot of functions still to come, including programmed operation, and it is not obvious at all that any changed key layout will keep on working as the main project code volume increase over time. That is the inherent problem with slap on code hacks.

Back to the reasons for it being difficult to change the layout:

- there are a lot of changes in different places in different files required.
- there are some special code and characters which need effort to properly re-arrange on the emulator screen and this will change as the main project adds or changes functions.
- the changes are such that they cannot be easily maintained especially when the project code starts changing, which it will.
- if the keys change, so does the greek letter layout, the menus around the keys and the logic of the key groupings, etc. This makes for a weaker layout.
- the manuals are written for a specific layout and will need a lot of changes.
- even if it works in the emulator, it is not obvious that the code will work on the real DM42, especially fiddling with the ON key.

However, I want the WP43S so badly, and I want it on my DM42, and I want it to work with operators on the right so I'll keep on trying to make it work at least for me, and try find a way to maintain the changes. I will first try update the new files manually when the code changes to see if it still works, and also if it still works with added functionalities.

I am not publishing this - it is way to early. But the point of the mail is to say there is a fair amount of hope that a future branch in the code could well accommodate the operators on the right. I would share a screen dump of the changed emulator with ops on the right on PM. Those interested, send me PM.
Jaco Mostert
Elec Eng, South Africa
WP34C, HP42S, DM42 for complex math; 35S, 28C, 32Sii, WP34S, EL-506P, EL-W506, FX750P; owned FX702P & 11C; used 67 & 85. iOS: 42s (Byron), Free42, WP31S/34S, HCalc.
43S operators right. DM42 sn. 03818.

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