Page 23 of 40

Re: 43S News

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 3:05 pm
by Jaymos
I played a bit with the WP43S. Herewith some comments.

1. I realise these things are early pre-alpha, so please indicate if you do want comments such as the comments below, or not.
2. If so, do you prefer comments under GitLab "issues"?
3. I am not sure which version number to refer below. Either way, the emulator was downloaded and compiled 2019-05-26. The hardware ppm file was dated 2019-05-23 18:45. Please advise if better references exist.


Comments on emulator on the Mac:

1. I love the fact that SETSIG is planned. For interest, why is it in the MODE menu, and not DISP menu?
2. Lastx is not on an obvious place and needs a shifted key imho.
3. Could the >R and >P shifted keys be made to perform expected complex operations if the data type in X is Complex16 or Complex34
4. Pressing DEG or RAD on the menu does not update the screen display.
5. The hyperbolic functions seems to be incorrectly placed in the EXP menu instead of the TRG menu.
6. Could a selectable option for "no stack lift on ENTER" or Entry RPN be planned in the specification? I would think two options would be needed, a. Run mode, b. PRGM mode. I would assume for any XROM type functions this must be disabled.
7. Typo in user guide: P146 typo: (− π, π]
8. I am not clear how to place the WP43S in DP "mode" such that when you hit g [TRI] for pi, that it will enter pi in REAL34.
9. I am not clear how to replace the thin space with a period should you want. (I don't want, just asking).
10. I would like if the complex number entry could be terminated with CC as well, with CC being equivalent to EXIT, i.e. no duplicate X. It keeps the fingers going to the same place. Eg. 3 [CC] 4 [CC] entered for 3+i4.
11. I would like for a thin space option to be added to MULTx and MULT.
12. Personally I find the icons in the menu for DEG>RAD, DEG>GRAD, etc. very confusing but of course it could be me only. I find I need to concentrate a lot to find the small deg o with the small r symbol within the many options. Just wondering if the 42S style >DEG or >RAD, or even DEG>RAD won't be better visible.
13. I am very keen to try modify the code to stick with the DM42 hardware layout, i.e. swapping the lower 4 keys on the left with the right. The USER mode won't change this and would be very confusing if within USER mode it is different to normal mode. Unless I fully misunderstand the USER mode.

I also loaded the WP43S.pgm file into my DM42 hardware s/n 03818, comments below:

1. 45 [TRG] SIN [ENTER] 45 SIN [ENTER] --> Crash "Hard Fault". Repeatable.
2. Buttons are very sluggish. Pressing 1 5 9 [EXIT] in sequence with one finger to restrict speed, I finish pressing [EXIT] before the 5 comes up on the screen. This delay disappears when running with USB plugged in.
3. 45 [ENTER] 4 --> Crash "Hard Fault". Repeatable.
4. 1 [ENTER] 2 --> Crash "Hard Fault". Repeatable.
5. Trying to find repeatability in keyboard crashes:
I confirmed when stack size = 4, this happens when the 5th 1 is pressed.
1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 --> Crash
I confirmed when stack size = 8, this happens when the 9th 1 is pressed.
1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 [EXIT] 1 --> Crash
Seems to be crashing when stack is filled for the first time.
6. Why does the hardware version not have the same key layout as the emulator?
7. What is needed to compile a fresh version for the hardware?


If there are more specific testing required, i.e. targeted, I am very willing.

Regards
Jaco

Re: 43S News

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:41 pm
by Walter
Thanks for your feedback. I'll try answering as far as I know:
A1. Yes, please.
2. No, thanks.
3. Difficult. The date you built is ok.

B1. Assumed not to be changed frequently.
2. Lastx is RCL L as in WP34S. I don't see a faster way.
3. Might well be RECT and POLAR do what you intended doing. See the ReM, also for ->REC and ->POL.
4. Watch the status bar. But what's tagged is tagged, convert it if you like.
5. What's the link of hyperbolics to triangles?
6. Not on our list.
7. This is written there. What's wrong with it?
8. There is no "DP mode". Pi is a special constant being implemented with high precision (> 34 digits).
9. We don't want either.
10. You terminate numeric entry using a function, typically ENTER. I don't see CC becoming such a function.
11+12. Will think about it making sense.
13. Please see posts far above.

C. As you mentioned above, it's pre-alpha. Actually, I'd recommend focussing on the emulator for the time being. So do I as well.

Thanks again.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:28 pm
by StatsDoctor
Thank you to the development team of the 43S for all of your hard work on what will end up being a great high-level RPN calculator! Thank you for posting things on this forum in order to keep us all up to date. Seeing your thought process, and the questions that you discuss, is very informative and interesting.

Once again, thanks for all of your efforts!

Best,

Bob

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:57 am
by Jaymos
Thank you for the answers Walter,

B1. I misunderstood SETSIG and confused it with the useful SIG done by Nigel for the WP34S, https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-3029.html. You are right SETSIG won't really change, and this point changes into a request for same.

On my WP34S I use the SIG setting much changing tasks with the calculator, eg. money FIX 2, site measured data SIG 3, electronics ENG 3 and general stuff often FIX 4 or 5.

2. Last x is clear and RCL L works fine and doesn't need anything else. In the emulator screen, text to that effect at "L" would help though.

3. I was aware of RECT and POLAR in the CPX menu. The point is that the >R and >P keys do not function on complex types, but they are only a single shift away, and not a shift & menu & shift and command away.

4. I meant that if you have a complex number in X, and the display mode is in POLAR, then if you go to MODE and press DEG, RAD, GRAD or MULpi, the angular indication on the far right of the complex angle, and the actual angle are not updated.

Example:
RECT
RAD
3 CC 4 EXIT renders 3+j4
POLAR [renders 5 angle 0.9273r (incorrect see 7b)]
DEG [renders 5 angle 0.9273r with no change and no screen refresh]
POLAR [r replaced with o, but the figure did not change. POLAR does a screen refresh here]

My point is that it would be nice if changing the angular display mode will also refresh the screen to see the changes in the polar complex numbers.

5. The hyperbolics' have mathematical eˆx nature, but the hyperbolics are/were always grouped with the names of the associated trig functions, right or wrong, on most calculators, hp or not. Look at the WP34S which has HYP to the left of SIN/COS/TAN, and the 35S which has HYP on SIN, and on the 32Sii, 11C and 15C where HYP is left of SIN (but equally far from eˆx).

6. Schade. I might scratch around in the code to see.

7. I like your manuals, also the 34S one. This is just a little typo, the round bracket is closed by a square bracket: (− π, π].

7b. Also in the user manual, on p147, 4 ENTER -3 EXIT CC renders -3+j4 and not as indicated 4-i3 in the manual, and in polar this is -3+j4 is 5 angle 126.9 degrees as per manual. However, the emulator produces the answer to be 5 angle 2.2143 degrees, which is neither right, nor as per manual.

8. The simulator shows that pi does not go into a 34 bit register when entered. On the simulator register display on the right, pi is registered as REAL16 with content +3.141 592 653 589 793 e+0, and if converted to DP type using g [9], it is simply changes to REAL34 with content +3.141 592 653 589 793 000 000 000 000 000 000 e+0.

9. A lot of people use periods, regardless of ISO.

10. I may scratch around in the code to see what is needed to achieve 3 CC 4 CC. I use it a lot on the WP34C's Complex Lock in a similar way: 3 CPX 4 CPX.

About complex entry: Your footnote 122 states that you follow tradition of the 42S to enter using the CC key. This is true for interactive entering such as 3 CC 4 EXIT which renders 3+4j, but false for composing and decomposing from stack such as 3 ENTER 4 EXIT CC which renders 4+j3. The simulator and manual p146 works opposite to the 42S here.

11. Thx. I see benefit for using 3+j4 instead of 3+j.4

C. Simulator it is then.

Regards
Jaco

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
by Walter
Thanks for the clarifications, Jaco. Some questions and remarks remain nevertheless.

B1. I can't find SIG on my WP34S. Where shall it be and what shall it do? :?
2. We count on the intelligence of our users ;)
3. Will think about the sensibilty.
4. Will investigate. EDIT: There's a bug. Thanks for reporting!
5. Well, the names are similar. Thus, if you spend a prefix key [HYP] then it's a no-brainer to combine it with the trig keys. But that's all. If, however, the public would be roaring for the hyperbolics going into TRI, I might do though frowning...
6. As long as you branch, feel free to do so. Please see also footnote 59.
7. That's no typo. Please check math notation.
7b. Will check. EDIT2: There's obviously an error in the manual. And the same bug as in 4. Thanks again.
8. Thanks for heads up. We'll have to deal with pi anyway.
9. as 2.
10. Please see footnote 7 in your WP34S Owner's Manual. Might apply to 1 as well.
10b. Footnote 122 is about interactive entry of complex numbers only.
11. Feel free to do so. I don't (I'd see a benefit in 3 + 4i or 3+4j if you prefer, but not the other way round).

As for other products, there are a number of fundamental design decisions also implemented in the 43S. We may discuss these to some extent, of course, but eventually we, the designers, will adhere to them. ISO 80000 states how to write numbers in a way that misunderstandings are minimized, so why repeat errors of our ancestors once we are enabled to do it better? KISS. YMMV.

(Further EDIT to add the parenthesis to 11.)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:59 am
by ijabbott
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
5. Well, the names are similar. Thus, if you spend a prefix key [HYP] then it's a no-brainer to combine it with the trig keys. But that's all. If, however, the public would be roaring for the hyperbolics going into TRI, I might do though frowning...
In a way, the normal trig functions are also exponential functions. Blame Euler!

https://youtu.be/vgk-lA12FBk

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:28 am
by Walter
ijabbott wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:59 am
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
5. Well, the names are similar. Thus, if you spend a prefix key [HYP] then it's a no-brainer to combine it with the trig keys. But that's all. If, however, the public would be roaring for the hyperbolics going into TRI, I might do though frowning...
In a way, the normal trig functions are also exponential functions. Blame Euler!

https://youtu.be/vgk-lA12FBk
Correct for sure. Do you want TRI in EXP now? ;)

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:41 am
by Walter
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:57 am
3. I was aware of RECT and POLAR in the CPX menu. The point is that the >R and >P keys do not function on complex types, but they are only a single shift away, and not a shift & menu & shift and command away.
Checked meanwhile: Actually, RECT (and POLAR) can be reached faster via [g] [MODE] [RECT] (or [POLAR]) for the first time needed - and thereafter just via this unshifted softkey.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:16 pm
by Jaymos
Thank you for the answers.
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
B1. I can't find SIG on my WP34S. Where shall it be and what shall it do? :?
http://www.cocoon-creations.com/download/IMG_9553.PNG
Easy to compile into the WP34S and make a sticker.
I would love for it to be in the WP43S.
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
2. We count on the intelligence of our users ;)
http://www.cocoon-creations.com/download/IMG_9554.PNG
I prefer to see Last x, otherwise I forget. I don't like invisible keys. Mine is visible on my WP34 machines.
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
5. Well, the names are similar. Thus, if you spend a prefix key [HYP] then it's a no-brainer to combine it with the trig keys. But that's all. If, however, the public would be roaring for the hyperbolics going into TRI, I might do though frowning...
Not sure I'll ever need it ... but in years when I do, I'll probably not remember it sits with logs etc., which makes it counter-intuitive, but not impossible to find.
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
6. As long as you branch, feel free to do so. Please see also footnote 59.
Not sure what footnote 59 (ISO 80000) has to do with eRPN.
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
7. That's no typo. Please check math notation.
WP43S UM p146: wrote: "Special cases: If a negative magnitude is entered, it is made positive
and ϑ is increased by π and then normalized (i.e. ϑ will never
exceed the interval (− π, π] in radians or its equivalents – cf. p. 122)."
I checked again and I really cannot see how this is correct.
Walter wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 am
10b. Footnote 122 is about interactive entry of complex numbers only.
I would prefer the same operation for both ways, consistent with the 42S tradition. I use complex numbers a lot, and having two opposing ways of entry will result in constantly doing it wrong.

The backwards entry style compared to 42S also is the reason that for complex numbers I never use the WP34S but always rather use my WP34C. Most certainly different entry methods in the same machine will be massively confusing to the user not using complex numbers often.

Re: 43S News

Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:48 pm
by H2X
Jaymos wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 6:16 pm
... my WP34C ...
What is a WP34C?