43S News

General discussion about calculators, Swiss Micros or otherwise
tgray
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:36 am

Re: 43S News

Post by tgray » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:31 pm

burkhard wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:40 pm
Let's take a look at ALL these portrait RPN calculators after the 41. They are all in the following arrangement a) ENTER left b) Math operators right c) Math operator order top to bottom = [/ , * , - , + ]. The ENTER is not above the math operators on any of them!
I don't really get a vote here since I'm not designing the WP43S, but all 5 of the calculators that I have (DM42S, HP12cp, HP50g, HP35S, and the HP30B) all have the operators on the right. All but the HP50g have the enter on the left of the numbers if I'm not mistaken. Heck, the WP34S has a similar layout. I'm not sure why one would change the operators to the left... particularly since the 50g, 35s, 12c, and 30b are the last round of RPN calculators that HP made new.

I'm assuming the WP43S will be based off of the DM42 hardware with no hardware modifications. The 'exit'/on/off key on the DM42 is depressed more than all of the other keys. I would find it extra annoying if the '+' key was depressed.

Then again, I'm not steeped in the history and knowledge of HP/RPN calculators. Around these parts, I'm a newbie (and a youngin').

rprosperi
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Location: New York

Re: 43S News

Post by rprosperi » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:40 pm

tgray wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:31 pm
I don't really get a vote here since I'm not designing the WP43S, but all 5 of the calculators that I have (DM42S, HP12cp, HP50g, HP35S, and the HP30B) all have the operators on the right. All but the HP50g have the enter on the left of the numbers if I'm not mistaken. Heck, the WP34S has a similar layout. I'm not sure why one would change the operators to the left... particularly since the 50g, 35s, 12c, and 30b are the last round of RPN calculators that HP made new.

I'm assuming the WP43S will be based off of the DM42 hardware with no hardware modifications. The 'exit'/on/off key on the DM42 is depressed more than all of the other keys. I would find it extra annoying if the '+' key was depressed.

Then again, I'm not steeped in the history and knowledge of HP/RPN calculators. Around these parts, I'm a newbie (and a youngin').
There is no right or wrong here, only opinions. As to why....

The 34S and to a lesser extent, but still present, the 43S were inspired by the 34C and 41C, and also some key features (complex, matrices, etc.) by the 42S. The 34C and 41C had operators on the left side; later, starting with the Pioneer series, HP's portrait mode calcs. switched to the right side and never looked back. For many purists (typically, us old fogeys that actually used the 34C and 41C for many years before Pioneers came along) that switch to the right was not embraced and the philosophical gap about which is 'better' began.

I still use many of both types, and find I can adapt pretty quickly without real problems, though I do recognize my muscle memory leans towards the left side, since I used that from the 70s to the 90s on a variety of machines, when most of my non-hobby calculating took place.

The WP-43S will hopefully be based on the core SM DM-42 h/w, but note that SM has confirmed alternate keyboard designs (labels) are possible (including a different ON/C key location). Given that, whether or not h/w with different keyboards (with labels printed on the keys) will come is likely a matter of basic economics and volume demand.

A relevant question about all this is how much more would you pay for the 'right' 43S keys, rather than using some kind of labels on actual DM-42 h/w?
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282

emece67

Re: 43S News

Post by emece67 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:49 am

tgray wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:31 pm
I'm assuming the WP43S will be based off of the DM42 hardware with no hardware modifications. The 'exit'/on/off key on the DM42 is depressed more than all of the other keys. I would find it extra annoying if the '+' key was depressed.
Also, the four keys at the left side of the DM42 machine are smaller (narrower) than the digit keys.

Regards.

tgray
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:36 am

Re: 43S News

Post by tgray » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:25 pm

emece67 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:49 am
tgray wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:31 pm
I'm assuming the WP43S will be based off of the DM42 hardware with no hardware modifications. The 'exit'/on/off key on the DM42 is depressed more than all of the other keys. I would find it extra annoying if the '+' key was depressed.
Also, the four keys at the left side of the DM42 machine are smaller (narrower) than the digit keys.

Regards.
Good point.

Bob: I plan on using these tools for another 25 years or so. I wasn't even a teenager when the 41 was discontinued. I'm already enough of a luddite for spending more than $20 on a calculator, much less an RPN one. However, I find it a useful tool alongside Python, Mathematica, and other tools I use everyday at work. To me, it makes sense to stick with the convention of the more recent calculators, but that's just me. I understand your sentiment; it just doesn't resonate with me. It also seems like wasted effort to go about getting a different keyset and top plate made for the DM42 hardware when there is a perfectly good and historically relevant layout already available.

Again, I'm not developing the WP43S, so more power to those who are. They are free to make their own decisions.

And yes, if I were to buy a WP43S, I would most definitely pay extra for real printed keys and not stick on labels. I doubt I would bother with it if it only had stick on labels.

rprosperi
Posts: 355
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Location: New York

Re: 43S News

Post by rprosperi » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:54 pm

tgray wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:25 pm
Bob: I plan on using these tools for another 25 years or so. I wasn't even a teenager when the 41 was discontinued. I'm already enough of a luddite for spending more than $20 on a calculator, much less an RPN one. However, I find it a useful tool alongside Python, Mathematica, and other tools I use everyday at work. To me, it makes sense to stick with the convention of the more recent calculators, but that's just me. I understand your sentiment; it just doesn't resonate with me. It also seems like wasted effort to go about getting a different keyset and top plate made for the DM42 hardware when there is a perfectly good and historically relevant layout already available.
Please don't misunderstand, I was not trying to justify the logic for changing, only to provide insight as to why some folks lean that way.

The reason alternate keyboards may be pursued is not due simply to the location of the operators, the entire keyboard is different from the 42S layout, due to the different/larger scope of capabilities in the 43S.
tgray wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:25 pm
And yes, if I were to buy a WP43S, I would most definitely pay extra for real printed keys and not stick on labels. I doubt I would bother with it if it only had stick on labels.
I can't imagine there is even a single person that would disagree, the decision hinges on how much more would you pay.

$5 more? Of course, that's a no brainer (though I am often amazed how far some folks will go to avoid spending $5).

But would you spend $20-30 more?

History has shown there was demand for >500 WP-34S machines, but total cost of that was typically < $75/each with labels, etc. For the WP-43S, the cost will likely be > $200/ea., and adding another $20 for a new keyboard (to cover the design/test/firmware/etc. costs amortized over a small batch of units) may be more than a reasonable percent of buyers would justify. Personally, I would.

Just food for thought.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282

alcuin
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Re: 43S News

Post by alcuin » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:41 pm

Michael wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am
alcuin wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:45 am
hardware related proposal.

43S could have USB OTG?

thanks
While the CPU is technically capable of USB OTG, the PCB doesn't power anything attached to USB.
thanks for your answer.

So it would be possible to connect an external powered keyboard or arduino powered devices?

regards

Michael
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Re: 43S News

Post by Michael » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:46 pm


Krauts In Space
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Re: 43S News

Post by Krauts In Space » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:03 pm

To my understanding the DM42 and DM43 are members of the same series of calculators: same size, same display.
Changing the numpad between DM42 and DM43 would be confusing.
DM15L S/# 10584 FW v25
DM42 S/# 01015 FW v3.5

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H2X
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Re: 43S News

Post by H2X » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:36 am

Krauts In Space wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:03 pm
To my understanding the DM42 and DM43 are members of the same series of calculators: same size, same display.
Changing the numpad between DM42 and DM43 would be confusing.
This is confusing - are you confused by the different Voyager models?
DM42 SN:00040
Be enter not or (Hamlet Yoda not)

keithdalby
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Re: 43S News

Post by keithdalby » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:13 am

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm a tiny bit confused. Is this WP43S in collaboration with SwissMicros or a homebrew project making use of the DM42 hardware?

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