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Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:44 pm
by cdmackay
rprosperi wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:47 am
I'm not 100% why folks are advocating these alternates (there seem to be multiple points being made) but the main difference is that [Enter] disables stack-lift, so the next thing entered replaces X without pushing the stack up, while the other methods terminate entry with stack lift enabled. To me, there are corner cases where this can make a difference, but typically it's not important. The usual reason folks pursue this is if they learned RPL before RPN, where all terminated entries always enable stack lift. These tricks better simulate the behavior of RPL.
thanks Bob!

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:07 pm
by Walter
akaTB wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:52 am
rprosperi wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:47 am

The usual reason folks pursue this is if they learned RPL before RPN, where all terminated entries always enable stack lift. These tricks better simulate the behavior of RPL.
Correct, and that's the main reason why we should avoid this and show them the light. :lol:
One more reason why WP calculators stick to RPN. 8-)

IIRC, far less people complained about ENTER at times when one-line displays were standard. More than two output lines seem to add confusion instead of enlightenment. Just an observation. ;)

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:31 pm
by rprosperi
Walter wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:07 pm
IIRC, far less people complained about ENTER at times when one-line displays were standard. More than two output lines seem to add confusion instead of enlightenment. Just an observation. ;)
I've noticed this too Walter, quite weird and unexpected; it would seem that being able to view more of the stack would provide confirmation of what one has presumably understood all along. But again, folks that started on RPL have always seen the entire stack, plus never needed to learn the subtleties of Stack-lift enable, -disable, etc. I suppose the lesson here is that with only 1-level visible, one had to spend more time thinking about what was where in the stack, rather than directly observing it.

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:07 pm
by Walter
rprosperi wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:31 pm
Walter wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:07 pm
IIRC, far less people complained about ENTER at times when one-line displays were standard. More than two output lines seem to add confusion instead of enlightenment. Just an observation. ;)
I've noticed this too Walter, quite weird and unexpected; it would seem that being able to view more of the stack would provide confirmation of what one has presumably understood all along. But again, folks that started on RPL have always seen the entire stack, plus never needed to learn the subtleties of Stack-lift enable, -disable, etc. I suppose the lesson here is that with only 1-level visible, one had to spend more time thinking about what was where in the stack, rather than directly observing it.
Yeah, thinking often helps. ;) BTW, a similar development was observed few decades earlier: with electronic calculators making slide rules obsolete, the abilities of estimating the correct order of magnitude of results faded. Unused neurons look for alternative tasks - train your brain!

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:02 am
by cesar
I'm using the latest firmware revision DMCP_3.14 (A new version gets a chance!). I've been using the calculator for a few hours and I think the keyboard reading has improved. In this time I haven't observed repeated keystrokes. Is it a coincidence or have you improved the keyboard debounce?
In my calculator repeated keystrokes were especially annoying and make it unusable.
Let's see if it's true!

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:07 pm
by toml_12953
Walter wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:07 pm
Yeah, thinking often helps. ;)
I try to avoid that whenever possible. :D I do note that since I can now store all my contact information in my phone, my ability to remember phone numbers has decreased markedly. Old age has nothing to do with it (does it?)

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:53 pm
by cdmackay
cesar wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:02 am
I'm using the latest firmware revision DMCP_3.14 (A new version gets a chance!). I've been using the calculator for a few hours and I think the keyboard reading has improved. In this time I haven't observed repeated keystrokes. Is it a coincidence or have you improved the keyboard debounce?
In my calculator repeated keystrokes were especially annoying and make it unusable.
Let's see if it's true!
The announcement mentions:

- Keyboard handling completely reworked

which sounds good.

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:43 am
by Thomas Okken
toml_12953 wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:07 pm
I do note that since I can now store all my contact information in my phone, my ability to remember phone numbers has decreased markedly. Old age has nothing to do with it (does it?)
If you were to actually dial those numbers, I'm sure you would remember them, but if you're just tapping names in your contact list, and letting the phone do the dialing for you, there's not much to cause the numbers to stick in your brain. And there's even less if the phone doesn't even show the numbers on the screen while it's dialing them.

As a counter-example, I've heard the claim numerous times that GPS is causing people to lose the ability to find their way without help. In my experience, this is not the case. For example, about three years ago, I moved to a new town. The area was completely unfamiliar to me, and in the beginning, I used the navigation app on my phone everywhere I went (except to go grocery shopping — I live right behind a shopping center so the grocery store is really easy to find :D ). But as time passed, I found myself using the GPS less and less, and by now, I don't use it at all anymore. I never made an effort to memorize all those routes and areas; they just gradually stuck.

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:46 am
by mark2c
Thomas Okken wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:43 am
... But as time passed, I found myself using the GPS less and less, and by now, I don't use it at all anymore. I never made an effort to memorize all those routes and areas; they just gradually stuck.
But... but... you'd previously developed spatial awareness (ie can read a map and visualise the locale). Many now use GPS when repeating the same trip.

Re: Keyboard debouncing

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:43 pm
by kevinvinv
I installed the latest firmware and seem to have no more bouncing issues... so far! Others ?