My dream DM42 display layout

Discussion around the Swiss Micros DM42 calculator.
jfb9301
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by jfb9301 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:13 am

tycho wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:44 am
@jfb9301, yes I also think the stack should be aligned to the top, or actually just stay statically the way the image shows when soft key menu is closed. E.g., if you only want to show X, Y, L, the separator line and X, Y stays fixed. That way, the display becomes even less busy with plenty of space above and below the X, Y registers, making it natural to focus on them.
I could work with yours, but I would just as soon remove the separator and put the Free42 status icons (e.g. up arrow, down arrow, 2nd function arrow) up top. I could even work with bottom alignment as long as the stack stops jumping up and down. I want space reserved for the soft menu.

dlachieze
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by dlachieze » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:47 am

@tycho, thanks for sharing your layout, this is driving an interesting discussion with different individual preferences.

Personally I’m pretty happy with the current DM42 stack display layout and options. You can chose different visible register configurations from XY to XYZTL or XYZTA, you have the choice of two different fonts and 6 different font sizes, and left or right alignment. You can easily adjust the font size to make room for the Alpha prompt window if needed.
I also prefer the sans font over the HP-42 font which don’t do justice to the screen resolution.

The layout presented in this thread is nice but IMHO it doesn’t scale well with a different font and different font sizes, or at least I think it would be quite difficult to make it nice for all combinations of font and font sizes.
jfb9301 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:07 am
I would just like to see the stack aligned to the top, not the bottom. Every time I open and close the soft menu it makes the stack jump up and down.
I just keep the DM42 main menu enabled and I don’t have any stack jump. Also, if you align the stack to the top you will always have a part of the stack masked by the Alpha prompt window.
tycho wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:48 am
A further step would be to make the font in the soft menu key smaller (need not be much larger than text on the physical keys).
I disagree, you will not gain any screen real estate by reducing the menu font, just make it more difficult to read for aging eyes which may be a large part of the DM42 users.
DM42 SN: 00425

tycho
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by tycho » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:41 pm

@dlachieze, sure I knew there would be different opinions on this, and I think many are happy with the current display layout, but this large nice display begs to be utilized in the best possible way.
The layout presented in this thread is nice but IMHO it doesn’t scale well with a different font and different font sizes, or at least I think it would be quite difficult to make it nice for all combinations of font and font sizes.
The idea for the layout is to have two areas, one with the display of stack x and y, which should grab the main attention. For that purpose you need a large font (as possible/sensible) anyway. For the upper area, this could be used for various info, not only upper stack, so here different font sizes makes sense (but should be smaller in general), and that should also scale well, why not?
I disagree, you will not gain any screen real estate by reducing the menu font, just make it more difficult to read for aging eyes which may be a large part of the DM42 users.
True, no screen real estate gain, but it may tone the menu down quite a bit. Notice how the text often extends over the complete soft key, leaving hardly any "frame" around it - looks bloated. Narrower uppercase menu text could be as easy to read (HP managed that even with a fraction of screen resolution). Also, you will learn those menu items by placement pretty fast, just as with the the physical keys.
"The Answer to the Great Question... Of Life, the Universe and Everything... Is... DM42" ― Adam Douglas

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Walter
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by Walter » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:21 pm

Looks better now. :)

Do we need that horizontal line?
DM42 SN: 00041 --- Follower of Platon.

HP-35, HP-45, ..., HP-50, WP 34S, WP 31S, DM16L

tycho
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by tycho » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:31 pm

Thanks Walter,
Do we need that horizontal line?
No, not really.

edit: With that said, the line emphasizes the layout idea of the two different areas, and acts as a visual guide to the "status line". It could also be made half as thick and stippled, making it very subtle:
Attachments
DM42LAYOUT3.png
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"The Answer to the Great Question... Of Life, the Universe and Everything... Is... DM42" ― Adam Douglas

rprosperi
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by rprosperi » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:56 pm

These are all certainly subjective issues and not matters of what is objectively better or worse.

It turns out for each of the issues being discussed, my opinion aligns with Didier's; I won't bother to repeat the comments as his were clearly stated, so this is a "1 +" for nearly all his comments.

Other than preferring the classic font, the other possibly slight variation is though I generally keep the main menu enabled, I have XYZTL display selected using the largest classic font setting, so I just need to toggle F2 if/when I need to see the L register.

The current selection of display options seems flexible enough for me, again opinions may vary.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282

tycho
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by tycho » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:40 pm

Thanks for your feedback Bob, I'm just throwing out ideas here. Here is the final one I will do - I think some of you may like this. I've used Consolas font with a custom colon and RAD symbol. Also used it on the menu - I think it looks better there because it is narrower and in bold.

At the end of the day, all I am looking for is just the ability to have two fonts sizes at the same time, and some slightly nicer fonts.
Attachments
DM42LAYOUT4.png
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"The Answer to the Great Question... Of Life, the Universe and Everything... Is... DM42" ― Adam Douglas

rprosperi
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by rprosperi » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:23 pm

Though as noted above I like things the way they are, here is a photo to add to the discussion.

When HP introduced the 48SX, they knew there were still LOTS of folks using the HP-41 for many reasons, including the religious issues in the RPL vs. RPN debate, 28 series machines folding format, etc. but they knew one of the biggest issues was there were many thousands of existing 41 programs still in daily use. An obvious solution was a '41 emulator on the 48, but after careful consideration, HP decided it could not be done well enough to satisfy customers. So, Bill Wickes decided to prove them wrong, and the rest is history: HP's 82210A "HP-41CV Emulator Application Card for HP-48SX". Though I believe not a huge commercial success, it does provide an amazingly accurate (functionality, not numerical - the 48SX was too accurate internally to act like a 41) emulation of the core 41 language. After I'm sure many such discussions, Bill came up with this display:
HP-41 Emulator on HP-48SX.jpg
HP-41 Emulator on HP-48SX.jpg (27.66 KiB) Viewed 1024 times
Note there are 3 font sizes: Largest for X Only, smaller for Y, Z and T, and smaller still for L.

I am NOT recommending this for the DM42, and deliberately did not post this during beta font/display discussions as a suggestion (since I don't like it), but include it here as fuel for creative discussions.
--bob p

DM42: β00071 & 00282

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RAPo
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by RAPo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:28 pm

Abstracting from the several presented layouts: the functionality we would like to have is to have a kind of definition file so that each to his own wishes can make a layout for the DM42 screen. The definition should be loaded from the system menu.

Would that be possible e.g. along the following lines:
<display>
<name>My perfect layout</name>
<statusbar>
<statusitem>
</statusitem>
....
<statusitem>
</statusitem>
</statusbar>
<lines>
<line id=1 item='z-stack' fontsize=3 fontname=Calibri>
</line>
....
<line id=maxitems item='l-stack' fontsize=3 fontname=Calibri>
</line>
</lines>
</display>
SN:00074

Hans S.
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Re: My dream DM42 display layout

Post by Hans S. » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:29 pm

Guenter wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:18 pm
-1
+1 to this (in that case -1 +1 would not equal 0). I hope this is clear: one plus on Günter. ("If the one guy to the other guy..." and so on)

Please keep in mind that we are not describing the year 2030 calculator (this would be the 43s), but the DM42.

Generally speaking (and ultimateety not to Günter, but to the "northern countries"): Of course, every living being could be improved; but, IMHO, a more humble approach should be considered. We are still talking about the 42, aren't we? So, please, let the 42 be a 42. In my - still humble - opinion, you will find a good amount of improvements likely to this in Casio's machines - I don't find them much appealing.

The original poster, or, to speak more correctly, the poster of the original contribution, should on any account not feel offended. These are very valuable ideas; but please you and others don't try to spoil a very proven concept. Just think of cars made by Mercedes-Benz; the operation concept did not change in 50 years - buy a new one, drive an old one - all the same, just feel at home. Of course it is because the concept was nearly perfect 50 years ago. And so are the Hewlett Packards from their beginnig on - in the context of their times and in the context of the possibilities of their times, same as with Mercedes-Benz.

Yes, you could nowadays transform every car into a flying machine and you could transform every handhold into a personal computer. But, if you want a computer, with, let's say, interchangeble typefaces, why you don't by a computer?

Please don't get me wrong: I never would critizise your suggestion. But: I could do the same on my house, my car, my dog, and my wife. My wife just would answer as following: Then you should go and buy another one. So your handheld could answer: then go and buy another one.

But the discussion mutt go move on - stessless.

All the best

Hans
And we glow slowly
ever
so
slowly.

(Joseph Jarman)

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